MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Secret Service

Interview

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SCHULTZ: President Obama called Pierson following her resignation to express his appreciation for her time serving the agency. I want to turn now to the ranking member on the Oversight Committee, Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings who was very troubled by what he heard yesterday. Congressman, is this the move that had to be made? Your thoughts on the news?

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, (D) MARYLAND: It absolutely had to be made, Ed because a culture has developed in the Secret Service whereby Secret Service agents feel more comfortable coming before a Member of Congress and talking about the problems in the Secret Service and revealing information that they were either afraid to or feared or do not think would be heard if they took it to higher-ups like -- to Director Pierson and so...

SCHULTZ: And why was it like that, Congressman? Why?

CUMMINGS: ... I don`t -- I`m not -- I don`t know but that culture does not help when you try and try to change an organization and by the way, it also erodes a trust not only within the organization but with the public and certainly I guess with -- by the First Family.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, there was another security breach in Atlanta on September 16th. Apparently...

CUMMINGS: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: ... an armed contractor with a criminal record was on an elevator with the President and the White House is confirming that the President found out right before the breach was reported. And it makes me wonder number one, who`s running the country? How powerful is the Secret Service and what is the President of the United States going to need to know basis here? What`s going on here?

CUMMINGS: Well, I got to tell you, Ed there was a lot of very disappointing information that come out of the hearing yesterday and then, this Atlanta incident also was very -- gave us a lot of concern. You know, the Secret Service, Ed a lot of their power comes from their ability to do the job in an excellent way and have a reputation for doing so. That reputation is very, very important because a reputation is what helps deter people from trying to attack the White House or bring harm to the President and others. And that reputation was clearly eroding and so we had to hopefully restore. We can now begin to restore some of that trust...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

CUMMINGS: ... and restore that reputation.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, why isn`t there`re oversight on a daily basis? Does the Secret Service -- are they a rogue organization? It would seem to me, if you want to change the culture like if you want to change the culture in business you got to change personnel and you got to change procedures. There`s a lot of things that got to happen to change your culture. Why is it that they...

CUMMINGS: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: ... Why is it that your committee isn`t made aware right away of security breaches? For instance, why wasn`t the government Oversight Committee told within hours that there was a criminal or a guy with a contract or with a criminal record on the elevator with the President? Why isn`t there...

CUMMINGS: Yeah.

SCHULTZ: ... that kind of tightness?

CUMMINGS: We should`ve had that kind of information but that goes to the very essence of my first statement. When you have Secret Service agents who don`t feel the comfort of, you know, of going to their higher-ups and the higher-ups would normally like the head of the I.S. (ph) would normally bring those kind of concerns to us. And that certainly if not happening, we have to get it from whistle blower members of the service and that just won`t work.

Again, I -- but you`ve said something else, Ed that I think we need to keep in mind. You know, first of all, I want to thank Miss Pierson for a service -- for 30 years of dedicated service but, Ed this culture then just come about just because of Miss Pierson.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. And there`s been other breach there.

CUMMINGS: Oh, yeah. And then, Ed my point is that there are probably some other folks who need to take the exit sign -- the exit ramp out too. And I`m hoping that Secretary Johnson of Homeland Security will take a very close look at this agency and make sure that folks who don`t need to be there are let go.

SCHULTZ: You want some heads to roll?

CUMMINGS: I want some heads to roll.

SCHULTZ: OK.

CUMMINGS: Because I want this organization restored to the reputation that it had before.

SCHULTZ: And also, Congressman...

CUMMINGS: And it`s very important.

SCHULTZ: ... how about Mr. Clancy? He is now the Interim Director coming back out of the private sector after years of service. Are you comfortable with that?

CUMMINGS: I`m comfortable with that. The President believes that Mr. Clancy would take a bullet forward. He has worked with him before. He feels very, very comfortable with him and he thinks he`s an outstanding professional. He also knows that he`s well respected by the other members of the Secret Service. And so, I feel as the President feel that strongly about him, I feel good about it.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Elijah Cummings, I appreciate your time tonight on the Ed Show. Thanks so much.

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

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