CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Ferguson, Missouri Situation and Poverty

Interview

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My next guest is Paul Ryan, Republican of Wisconsin, chairman of the House Budget Committee and former vice presidential candidate who has had a lot of interesting things to say about poverty. He's also the author of the new book, "The Way Forward: Renewing the American Idea."

Congressman Ryan, thanks so much for joining us.

I want to start -- I know you don't want to talk about the specifics of the Michael Brown shooting. I totally respect that. There are at least two investigations going on.

But as somebody who talks about poverty who has visited urban America, as a leader, what's your response to the images you're seeing?

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: Well, first of all, I think you need to let the investigation take its course. We as leaders need to extend our sympathies, to the Brown family, to the community and respect its investigation so we can get to the facts and the truth, so that justice can be served.

I as a political leader do not want to give any impression that I'm trying to graft my policy preferences or political agenda on to this situation, because that would be disrespectful to do that.

If you're asking me on my opinions about poverty, I would tell you, we have a long ways to go to cure and fight systemic poverty in America. And we as policy-makers need to have a fresh look at the war on poverty, given that it's 50 years old and we have the highest poverty rates in a generation.

This is why, for the last two years, I have spent a lot of time with others looking at the poverty situation, listening to people fighting poverty successfully in many cases in a lot of our poor communities, and trying to apply those lessons to good public policy, so that we can focus the war on poverty on an outcome-based approach vs. what I would call has been traditionally the input-based approach, how much money are we spending, how many programs are we creating, how many people do we have on these programs, instead of how many people are we truly getting out of poverty, are we attacking the root cause of poverty to break the cycle of poverty, or are we simply treating systems.

These are the kinds of questions I think we need to ask of ourselves. And as policy-makers, we can get better solutions after doing something like that. And that's why I put a plan out to get this debate going to get some ideas on the table to see if we can get some better thinking to really finally go at some of the fundamental causes of poverty in America.

TAPPER: So, obviously, we don't have time.

I know you could talk for several days about budgets and specific social programs. Let's just talk about food stamps as one. Do you think that food stamps should be cut? Do you think that it should be monitored better? How would the Ryan proposal help people in poverty when it comes to applying that program?

RYAN: The Ryan proposal -- I call them opportunity grants -- would consolidate up to 11 different federal welfare-based programs into flexible grants to the states, so that you can customize aid per a family's need.

Here's the problem, Jake. One woman fighting poverty may need food stamps or may need job training. One man in poverty may need addiction counseling and jobs training. People have different problems. We shouldn't use this sort of Washington, one-size-fits- all, cookie-cutter solution.

Let's customize aid to families in need and let's also break up the welfare agency monopolies that are not performing like they need to and give families in need more choices on where they can get their services from and have an outcome-based approach, have a work-based approach, and then measure and test results.

The point I'm trying to make is, there are a lot of innovative ideas in our communities. We shouldn't stifle them or displace them. We should support them. And let's go with customized aid. I have seen lots of phenomenal stories, Lutheran Social Services, Catholic Charities, America Works, groups that when they have had the ability to customize aid to a particular person's need has actually helped treat that person eye to eye, soul to soul, fighting poverty far more effectively than having this one-size-fits-all situation. And that's what I have been proposing with my opportunity grants.

TAPPER: You write in your book that you regret having used the phrase makers and takers to describe economic disparity. You say -- quote -- "It sounds like we're saying people that are struggling are deadbeats."

And you also had to clarify comments you made about the tailspin of -- quote -- "inner-city culture."

Do you think that your -- I don't doubt your sincerity in wanting people to be lifted out of poverty. Having stumbled a couple times, or at least apologized for things you have said a couple times when addressing this issue, why do you think it is that Republicans seem to have such a hard time convincing the people of Ferguson behind me that you care about them?

RYAN: Sure.

So, let's take the makers and takers. That was convenient shorthand which applied too broad of a brush to a problem that we're facing in America. And, look, as a policy-maker, I think if you think you have made a mistake, you should own up to that.

More to the point, I was misdiagnosing the issue and the problem. The problem isn't people are struggling to survive in America. That's part of the American idea, struggling to make a better life for yourself. I think the problem is policies that don't work to help people get to where they want to get in life.

And so if we are not communicating that correctly, and if we are not presenting our ideas as effectively as we ought to present them, then let's learn from the mistakes and try and do a better job of doing so. And you talk about folks who are battling, who are struggling.

I think that there are policies that have been in place for a long time that haven't been working. And if they're not working, if we have persistent poverty, if we have chronic, multigenerational poverty, let's try some new ideas. Let's see what has worked in some other areas and see if we can apply them to these areas.

And so that's the kind of policy-making I think we need to do. Let's stop talking to each other in poisonous, partisan, divisive ways. And the argument I make in my book, which is, if we really want to renew the American idea, which is that the condition of your birth doesn't determine the outcome of your life, we have got a lot of work to do in this country.

I have put out a number of reforms and proposals and solutions based on solid first principles that made this country great in the first place on how to do that. That, to me, is what policy-makers should do.

I don't like the direction the country is headed right now. And, therefore, as an elected official, I shouldn't just criticize. I should propose solutions and alternatives. And that's precisely why I wrote this book and why I'm doing that.

TAPPER: You write a lot -- about a lot more than just poverty in your book, "The Way Forward: Renewing the American Idea."

Obviously, because I'm standing in Ferguson, I focused on that. I hope you come back. We can talk about more of the ideas in your book.

Best of luck with it, Congressman Paul Ryan.

RYAN: My pleasure. Thanks, Jake. Take care.

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