CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Current Situation in Ukraine

Interview

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Senator Dan Coats, Indiana Republican, said this recently, quote, "When you have a bully in the playground, you've got to stand up to him. You can't sit there and calculate the potential economic risk."

Obviously, a criticism of the Obama administration policy, so far.

On the phone with me now, we have the man behind those words, Senator Dan Coats.

Senator, I want to see -- you said you want to kick Russia out of the G-8. You want to close U.S. consulates there. I mean, these are tough words.

Looking at Russia's behavior since the crash, its denial of involvement and, in fact, mounting evidence that Russia supplied weapons systems to the rebels who shot the plane down. Has this done anything to change your mind? Or are you more resolved now, I imagine, to take these steps?

SEN. DAN COATS (R), INDIANA (via telephone): Now, I'm even more resolved. What Russia had done to Crimea, what the disturbances that they are fomenting in eastern Ukraine, they are going to keep doing things like this if we don't stand up to them.

Now, this is really a defining moment for the E.U. Let me say this -- we need to verify and prove that Russia had some role in this effort here. They are the ones that sort of lit the fires in eastern Ukraine and supplying the weapons. Their proxies may have been responsible. That still makes Russia complicit.

So, I think they need to pay a very heavy price for what they have done previously and what their role might be here. Obviously, we want to verify that first. I have been calling in tough sanctions for quite some time on the basis that Russia has been the aggressor and Russia holds the responsibility to settle this thing down if they chose to do so.

SCIUTTO: The question, Senator Coats, is what's going to make a difference here. The U.S. and Europe, they've used modest sanctions to this point. They've certainly used very public condemnation.

I want you to listen to what Congressman Adam Schiff said to us a few moments ago, Democratic congressman, member of the House Intelligence Committee. He's raising the question about whether it is time to help Ukraine militarily.

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SCIUTTO: Senator Coats, to this point, the military support for Ukraine has been simple sort of supplies, of electronic generators, bullet proof vests, et cetera. Do you think the U.S. should be considering real weapons, even the possibility of heavy weapons to right the balance between the Ukrainian military and pro-Russian rebels which are armed by Russia?

COATS: Well, depending on Russia's response to this and verification we are looking for I think that ought to be on the table to be considered.

What has been done to date with some of the sanctions is far too little and far too late. We have not taken a strong lead. The Europeans have not taken a strong lead in terms of imposing economic sanctions to cripple the Russian economy.

We need to drive down their stock market. We need to stop their exports of arms. We need to stop -- find ways to bypass their export of energy to Europe.

I think it's a defining moment for Europe. You are going to sit back and let Russia nibble away piece after piece of Eastern Europe as long as no one stands up to them and really makes them pay a price it's going to continue.

So, I would rather see them step up now on tough sanctions, particularly economic sanctions, and we can weigh what we can do or what we might need to do in terms of giving more support to the Ukrainian army.

HARLOW: Senator Coats, Poppy Harlow here in New York, on the point of economic sanctions, what we know is clear the sanctions that have been stepped up by President Obama this administration clearly haven't made a dent to Russia in terms of it almost fortified their will. I will say, though, it is very different for European countries in terms of the economic impact they face if they do agree to significantly ratchet up sanctions along with the United States.

How do you think the U.S. Congress and president can persuade Europe to get on board with that, given what we know economically can do to them?

COATS: Well, the president and I know has been in touch with European leaders. But Europe needs to make a decision as to how it is going to respond to this. They would like to do it with us. And I think if we can get agreement on much tougher sanctions imposed on Russia, particularly on the economic front and willingness to support if necessary Ukrainians as they're fighting with this.

But really the effort here is to get Putin and fellow separatists to stand down. And he's the one person that can do that, but he doesn't see that he is paying the price for not doing that. And until we stand up to this bully in the playground, it's just going to continue.

SCIUTTO: Senator Coats, I wonder if we reached the point where the president cannot get Europe on board that there is still difficulty in building European consensus and Europeans aren't willing to face their own economic cost from sanctions against Russia and indeed dependency on Russian natural gas, what if the U.S. took steps on its own? U.S. has tremendous economic leverage. It could ban Russian companies from U.S. financial markets, from U.S. debt. That would have an enormous cost.

Should U.S. act on its own in the event it cannot get Europe on board?

COATS: We might have to for the sake of the future of the stability in Europe. But, as I said before, this is a defining moment for Europe. If they back down now and they're tepid in terms of their response, that's going to create a very serious situation. Acting united, United States and Europe in dealing with this with tough sanctions against Russia and making them pay a major price is actually, I think absolutely necessary to achieve a result here without escalating this process.

And so, whether it is Ukraine or whether it is fighting the support for separatists, supplying weapons or whatever, and perhaps this missile launcher, Russia is complicit in all of this. And that's where we need to target our efforts.

SCIUTTO: Senator Coats, Republican from Indiana, thank you very much for taking the time to join us.

COATS: You're more than welcome. Thank you.

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