MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Iraq

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

MADDOW: Democratic Caucus Chairman Xavier Becerra speaking today. If
Congress did take up its responsibility to vote on a declaration of yet another war in Iraq, if they all had to take a binding vote on that, where their names were attached to that vote forever, what do you think the prospects are we actually would have another third war in Iraq?

Today, the Pentagon announced that special operations teams have started to deploy into Baghdad and elsewhere in Iraq. These are the several hundred troops that President Obama announced he would be sending last week. And that he notified Congress he would be sending last week.

That notification, which is a formal thing, it looks like this, that notification from the president to Congress last week, that started the clock ticking on a 60-day window in which the president can send forces into hostilities or into what looks like imminent hostilities without permission from congress.

After 60 days, though, the War Powers Resolution says that Congress has to cut bait, right? Congress needs to authorize that use of military force, even if they don`t want the decision. Even if they would prefer to throw it in the president`s lap and make him deal with it while they complain on TV. It is Congress` call to make.

And now, here`s the surprising bit -- Democratic members of Congress just introduced and passed through the House language that makes it official and overt that Congress won`t advocate the responsibility on this, even if theSenate says they want to. This language was introduced by two Democratic members of the House, Colleen Hanabusa of Hawaii and John Garamendi. They are both Democrats. The House is controlled by Republicans. But their language on this thing passed.

Congressman Garamendi said thereafter, "Today, the House of Representatives stood unified we will not rush into a Third Gulf War. The Constitution gives Congress the right and obligation to give advice and consent before waging war. I have serious doubts about waging any military campaign in Iraq, and clearly", he says, "I am not alone."

Joining us now for the interview is Congressman John Garamendi of California, member of the Armed Services Committee and one of the two members of Congress who got this language passed through the House.Congressman, thank you very much for being with us. I appreciate your time.

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D), CALIFORNIA: Always a pleasure.

MADDOW: So, what does this language do? And how did you get it passed through a Republican-controlled House where no Democratic measures ever get passed?

GARAMENDI: Well, this one did get passed because I think there`s real serious concern, real serious concern among both Democrats and Republicans about Iraq 3.0.

We`ve been there. We`ve done that. This is a very, very complex and a very dangerous situation. We should be very slow to war.And that resolution that is now over in the Senate side says unless the president comes back to us as required by the War Powers Act, money is cut off. There will be no money.

Hopefully that will become the law. The Senate is going to take it up in this next month of July. If it becomes the law, then that will be it.

We will have to carry out our constitutional responsibilities. We were elected to obey the Constitution, to carry out the responsibilities. We must do so.

MADDOW: So to be clear, this is language that`s attached to Pentagon spending bill. It would apply to all defense spending and would say that none of that money, no Pentagon money could be spent on new hostilities, new U.S. military involvement in Iraq other than defending the embassy, unless the president got overt permission from Congress?

GARAMENDI: That`s correct. That`s exactly what it does.

We`ve had the War Powers Act around for a long time since the Vietnam War, and all too often it`s ignored by the president and Congress. But this one, should this become law, I hope the Senate will follow our lead on this, it has real teeth. There`s a hammer here and the hammer will come down unless the president comes back, gets congressional approval to conduct a long-scale war in Iraq.

MADDOW: You heard the clips that I played there at the part of the introduction just because I wanted to get them on the record saying it. And it`s not only Republicans that have said it. A lot of members of Congress, both in the House and the Senate, Republican and Democratic, have said that they think the president has the ability to do this unilaterally.

You obviously disagree. Your language that you got passed obviously makes clear that you disagree. I think constitutionally you`re right here and they`re plainly wrong.

But what`s the sort of pulse in Congress? Is it -- do people widely agree or have one position or another on whether or not it`s Congress` responsibility here?

GARAMENDI: Well, we will ultimately see. But right now, there`s clearly probably around 180 firm votes about not going to war in Iraq once again. That was shown in the various amendments that were in the House Appropriation Bill for the Department of Defense. We`ll see what happens.

A lot will depend upon the circumstances, but I think it`s very clear to me, and I hope increasingly clear to the American public, that this is a major religious war that`s been going on for 1,400 years, and we`re going to find ourselves right smack in the middle of it. And on whose side?

You`ve got Iran, you`ve got Iraq involved. You`ve got Syria. You`ve got all of these factions going back and forth. Exactly whose side will we be on? Well, the side we`ll be on is right smack in the middle of a very complex, difficult, and very dangerous sectarian war, religious war between two factions of the Muslim religion.

MADDOW: Which is why everybody`s always very happy to pass the sort of hot potato on this and not be stuck making their own decision on it. You`re trying to stop that from happening.

Congressman John Garamendi --

GARAMENDI: Well, we can`t dodge -- we can`t dodge this. This is our responsibility. We all took the oath. The Constitution`s quite clear. It`s up to Congress to either go to war or not.

MADDOW: Congressman John Garamendi of California, member of the House Armed Services Committee -- thank you for helping us understand this, sir. I appreciate your time.

GARAMENDI: Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source