MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Government Shutdown and Debt Limit

Interview

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On Saturday, the House Democratic leadership released a letter with 195 members of the caucus who say they will support a clean continuing resolution to reopen the government. Two of those members of the Democratic Caucus join me now: Representative Jim Moran, Democrat from Virginia, and Representative Jim McDermott, Democrat from Washington state.

Congressman Moran, do you think if Boehner -- the speaker of the House and he has the power to do it -- calls up a vote on a clean C.R., continuing resolution, to get the government back to work tonight, would it pass?

REP. JIM MORAN (D), VIRGINIA: Absolutely. I`ve talked to two or three dozen Republicans who have indicated that they would vote for it. I`m confident that it would vote pretty decisively if the speaker would just let a clean continuing resolution come to the floor of the House.President Obama is right on this. Unfortunately, Speaker Boehner has reversed himself. I don`t know why. Probably out of pressure.

But he is incorrect when he said Sunday that it wouldn`t pass. It would pass. There is no question about it in my mind.

MATTHEWS: Mr. McDermott, what is this about? We all watch this guy. I`ve said this before, it reminds me of a Jack Lemmon character in his later -- kind of nervous business guy who`s done something wrong and his business is in shambles and he just looks like hell.

Why does he worry about -- if it`s only 30 or 40 members in his caucus, who are the wild guys out there, why does he worry so much about them? Why doesn`t he just say, I`m going by, I`m going to go with the majority. I didn`t get a majority of my caucus, I don`t need all the crazies. Why doesn`t he do it that way?

REP. JIM MCDERMOTT (D), WASHINGTON STATE: Well, let`s play it out for a second. Suppose he called for a clean vote. Put it out there, 30 Republicans, 195 Democrats went for it. It passed. He is afraid that the next action in his caucus will be to remove him from speaker.

Now, think about it. Here is a guy that is now a hero for the American people. He has put our country back together. It is working, the government is working. And their next act is going to cut off his head as speaker? No, that`s not going off to happen. He needs to have the nerve and the guts to stand up to those 30 guys, 40, whatever it is, and say, "Look, you won`t help me. I am going next door and I`m getting the votes because I care about my country." That`s what John Boehner has to do. If he did that, he would have nothing to worry about.

MATTHEWS: Well, let me ask you, Jim Moran, Congressman, what is it -- who is on his life line, who`s the chief of staff? Who does he trust? Cantor from your state, McCarthy from California, who is in the inner circle that`s spooking him? somebody must saying you`d better be careful.

We got a sense that every time he came back from the White House with Obama, he`d have a deal hash out. Next, he`ll hear from the chief of staff, didn`t hear from Cantor, and all of a sudden, he loses his guts again. Who is scaring, who`s telling him, "Everything you guys are saying is wrong"?

MORAN: Chris, I don`t think it is in his office or in the caucus. I think outside money and outside media. It`s the Rush Limbaughs of the world, FOX News, it`s the Koch brothers, it`s all those three dozen organizations that were talked about on the front page of "The New York Times" yesterday. I think it`s-- the money and it`s the media. And so, I think he feels constrained with a very tight parameters of what they instruct him to do.

MATTHEWS: Mr. McDermott, are you and your colleagues, almost 100 of them, Democrats, are you confident the president has the winning hand here? At what point, do you think, it will it get hot for the Democrats, as well as the Republicans, as you approach 10 days from now the shutdown, not shutdown, but the debt default?

MCDERMOTT: I think we do because I think the president is right. We cannot -- you can`t bargain the debt limit increase. You could say, let`s raise it a little bit, or for a week, or two. That`s going to throw the world economy into chaos.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

MCDERMOTT: The president cannot do that. I don`t think he will do it. I think if he sticks to his guns. Ultimately, the Wall Street boys are going to come down and say, look, John, you want to play golf with us, you better take that out on the floor and get it clean.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: This two-month -- Chuck Todd was talking about it from the White House. The press is hearing about a two month proposal. I don`t think anything would be accomplished in two months that couldn`t be accomplished right now. Your thoughts, again, Mr. McDermott.

MCDERMOTT: I think it would be a mistake to go for a short one. You ought to raise it so that you can get through the next six months or next year. It doesn`t -- we are going to raise the debt limit. We have raised it 111 times, since Clinton was president of the United States.

And we`re going to raise it again and again and again. And you might as well just admit it. And do it. It`s silly and very, very bad for the country not to go ahead and do it.

MATTHEWS: Mr. Moran, you represent the district right across the Potomac from the White House. You walk -- every day when you walk around old town Alexandria, you bump in to people who work for the federal government who are off right now. What is the mood in terms of this shutdown?

MORAN: They`re distraught, Chris. These are people who want to be working. Fortunately, we were able to get our bill passed on Saturday that will pay them. I think that makes it a very compelling case that if we are going to pay them, they ought to be working and they want to be working for their pay.

But it`s also contractors. There are even more contractors and federal employees that are out of work. This is going to take a big bite out of our economy, probably billions of dollars. But it will be all over the country.

You know, the American people, the business community, they need some stability. They need some confidence regained in their government. So, this funding for a very short of period of time, let alone lifting the debt ceiling for a very short of period, I completely agree with my friend, Jim McDermott, you know, if that doesn`t work, we`ve got to resolve this and resolve it for some extended period time.

MATTHEWS: I am so glad to hear you gentlemen say that. That seems to be he strong, smart position.

Thank you, U.S. Congressman Jim Moran of Virginia, U.S. Congressman Jim
McDermott of Washington, the state of Washington.

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