CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript: ACA and Government Shutdown
Interview
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CROWLEY: We are back now with Senator Ted Cruz. I do believe, senator, that he was sort of referring to you in some of those remarks about the extreme members of Congress that they -- people that they characterize as extreme shutting down the government to the harm of the U.S. The debt ceiling. How should Republicans approach that?
CRUZ: Well, I mean, let me commend actually Secretary Lew for not being willing to demagogue on the debt ceiling the way sadly his boss, President Obama, has. If I counted it right, three times you asked him directly come October 17th, will the United States default on its debt? And three times, he avoided answering. And the reason is the answer is, of course not.
Now, frankly, what I wish he said and what any responsible president would say is you come out and say under no circumstances will the United States ever default on its debt. That should be the answer. But Secretary Lew at least went half way there by refusing to repeat the claim that President Obama's made that there is some risk of our default --
CROWLEY: But would you agree that it's not good for the U.S. not to be able to borrow past where it is, because at some point, it will have to default. How should the Republicans handle the debt ceiling? Do you want some, for instance, faction of the president's health plan to be attached to that in exchange for lifting the debt ceiling or because it's so important, should Republicans say we need to lift this debt ceiling?
CRUZ: Look, in my view, the debt ceiling, we should look for three things. Number one, we should look for some significant structural plan and reduce government spending. Number two, we should avoid new taxes. And number, we should look for ways to mitigate the harms from Obamacare. You know, since 1978, the debt ceiling has been raised 55 times.
CROWLEY: So, you think that some facet of the president's health care plan should be attached to an increase in the debt ceiling?
CRUZ: The debt ceiling historically has been among the best leverage that Congress has to reign in the executives.
CROWLEY: So, yes?
CRUZ: Yes. Yes.
CROWLEY: And what else?
CRUZ: But my point is that there's great historical precedence. Since 1978, we raised the debt ceiling 55 times. A majority of those times, 28 times, Congress has attached very specific and stringent requirements, many of the most significant spending restraints things like Gramm-Rudman, things like sequestration came through the debt ceiling.
And so, the president's demand jack up the nation's credit card with no limits, no constraints, it's not a reasonable demand.
CROWLEY: How far are you willing to go because I'm going to imagine that a number of your Republican colleagues as well as all the Democrats are going to say we cannot mess around with the debt ceiling here. It's too important. It's in a bad message. It will rock the economy. Let's increase the debt ceiling for X amount of time or X amount of dollars. How far would you go to stop that in order to eke out --
CRUZ: Look, in my view we ought to have one fight at a time. So, we're right now in the middle of a government shutdown.
CROWLEY: But it's all going to pull together. You would agree with that.
CRUZ: It may or may not. I don't think it should. I think we still got some time on the debt ceiling. And I think right now, we need to deal with the fact that a significant percentage of the government is shut down because Harry Reid and President Obama have refused to negotiate.
And you're seeing House Republicans over and over again passing reasonable bills to open vital government services and President Obama and the Democrats refusing to negotiate. We have to focus on that first, because that's the immediate challenge.
CROWLEY: Well, I -- I grant you that both sides see the other side as at fault here. But that's about blame. I think what the American people want to know is, where does this end? You talked last night -- you were at a Virginia republican event in Richmond and said Republicans will win this.
And by that, I believe you meant what you wanted in exchange for a spending bill. What does win this mean to you? What does that have to look like for a Republican victory?
CRUZ: Let me be clear, I didn't say Republicans will win this. Listen, I think career politicians in both parties have been part of the problem. What I said is the American people are going to win. And that's something very --
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CROWLEY: What does the American people win look like to you?
CRUZ: Look, what the American people want is they want our government funded and they want to stop the harms from Obamacare. Obamacare is hurting millions of people. It's killing their jobs. It's forcing them into part-time work. It's driving up health insurance premiums, and it's causing millions of Americans to lose or risk losing their health insurance. That's a win for the American people is actually responding to the real harms that are coming from Obamacare. CROWLEY: So, let me show you some polling that was done recently. And the question encompasses both of those things you just talked about and that is, do you believe, the question is, that in order to change Obamacare defunded the government should shut down if that's the price for getting it done?
And the CBS poll basically showed 72 percent totally disapprove of that tactic. So, if we're listening to what the American people want, they don't want a government shutdown simply because there are differences over the health care law.
CRUZ: But Candy, as you phrase that question, I'm in that 72 percent. I don't want the government to shut down. I've said that throughout. And the reason the government has shut down, you know, you mentioned in fact earlier you guys ran a graphic on the screen both sides refuse to negotiate. And look, I understand the natural reaction you see an impasse in this sort of natural reaction is, well, both sides are to blame.
But I don't think the facts support that, because if you look, the House Republicans repeatedly had been compromising, had been passing one bill after another, first of all, on Obamacare itself, and then secondly, working to restart vital government functions. And the Senate Democrats over and over again and President Obama has said they won't negotiate. They won't talk.
They have not moved one inch. And when you've got one side that's compromising the other side that isn't, I don't think it's an accurate or fair description to say that neither side is negotiating.
CROWLEY: But it is accurate to say is it not that absent the Republicans attaching things to do with the president's health care act, a clean CR would have gone through? That's accurate, correct?
CRUZ: That's actually not Accurate. So, for example, you played the president saying let's have a vote. Let's stop the farce. I agree with President Obama. There are eight bills that the House has passed that are piled up on Harry Reid's desk. And Harry Reid will not let the Senate vote. So, for example, Jack Lew, Candy, said we need to fund our veterans and disability payments. I agree.
The House passed a bill to fund our veterans. Every Senate Republican believes we should fund our veterans regardless of what happens in the shutdown, our veterans shouldn't pay the price. And right now, Harry Reid and the Senate Democrats are refusing to have a vote and they're blocking it. The only reason the VA is not adequately funded right now is because Harry Reid and the Democrats are blocking it. That's not reasonable.
CROWLEY: How about a cooling off period? There's this idea being floated -- CNN is reporting kind of a cooling off period, that you pass a clean spending bill for six weeks, and on it, you also increase the debt ceiling for six weeks. And in that six weeks, you negotiate on how to fund the government for the rest of the fiscal year and you negotiate the debt ceiling.
CRUZ: Candy --
CROWLEY: That would accomplish, would it not, what you want, which is the president at the table?
CRUZ: Look what you just asked. You said how about the agreement be give the Democrats 100 percent of what they want with no changes whatsoever. They're not talking now, but if you give them everything you want, then they'll talk. No, they won't. Look, we saw this week President Obama after months of refusing to talk to Congress finally invited Congressional leaders over, sat down and said hi, I invited you here to say I will not negotiate.
Their view is not reasonable. It is Republicans in Congress who are passing bills to reopen the parks, to reopen the memorials, to fund cancer research, to fund our veterans, and it is the Democrats who are refusing to have a vote. I mean, Candy, why won't Harry Reid let the Senate vote on the eight bills the House has passed to fund vital parts of the government?
CROWLEY: I think he would say because he thinks he's being blackmailed, but I want to continue this conversation. We'll be back. We got to take a quick break. We want to talk about a couple of things when we return. I also want to talk about some of the blowback you're getting from members of your own party. They reportedly gave you an earful behind closed doors saying you don't have an end game strategy and you're, quote, "selling snake oil." Your chance to respond after this.
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REP. PETER KING, (R) NEW YORK: I think Republicans have to be more responsible. We have this wing of 30, 40, or 50 people who are driving us over a cliff. That has to end. We have to stop listening to Ted Cruz.
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CROWLEY: That's Congressman Peter King. He is a frequent and vocal critic of Senator Cruz. Will voters blame Republicans for the shutdown and could the price be their majority in the House? More with Senator Ted Cruz next.
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CROWLEY: We are back with Republican senator, Ted Cruz. As you know, Speaker Boehner is out today also on the Sunday morning circuit and he said that there are not the votes in the House for a clean increase in the debt ceiling, that there is a history of debt ceiling increases being tied to other policy things, and that he wants to sit down with the president to talk about that.
My question to you is, if what the speaker can pass out of the House does not include health care reform but includes other things, entitlement reform or some manner of tax reform, would that be OK with you or do both the shutdown and the debt ceiling have to have some component rescinding some part of Obamacare?
CRUZ: Look, I think the speaker is exactly right. And I commend his leadership, because the House of Representatives has been listening to the American people and what House Republicans have been doing consistently throughout this is trying to resolve this matter. I mean, they've been passing bill after bill to fund vital priorities of the government, and the Senate Democrats, there are eight bills piled up on Harry Reid's desk that he won't allow. CROWLEY: I understand. I heard you say that, but the questions is, does some part of health care reform -- repeal in some way have to be attached to a debt ceiling for you to approve of it?
CRUZ: Look, as I said, I want to worry about the debt ceiling after we get through the CR. My view is, what does Congress need to do now whether it's the CR or debt ceiling is, we need to prevent the millions of people who are losing their jobs, who are being pushed into part-time work, who are facing -- you know, for a young healthy 30-year-old male who's single, recent study showed that under Obamacare, he's going to pay health insurance premiums going up 260 percent. We need to address that.
CROWLEY: If this is more than anecdotal, if this is a widespread problems that spelled doom for the president's health care plan, why not just let it rip? Let it go into effect and have it cave on its own? Because then, I think you'll have much better numbers in the polls of people that want to get rid of health care.
CRUZ: Look, it's a great question, and the reason is, if you listen to what Senator Harry Reid said, he said that he believes that Obamacare will lead inevitably to single payer government socialized health care. Listen, I agree these things are going to collapse, but in the process of collapsing, it's going to destroy the private health insurance system.
You've got hundreds of millions of people who right now have private health insurance that is jeopardized by Obamacare. So, when it collapses, I don't want it to destroy the health insurance we have now. And listen, Candy, if one of your viewers doesn't trust me because I'm a politician which actually makes sense, because I'm a republican, maybe they would trust James Hoffa who's the president of the teamsters.
James Hoffa said in writing that Obamacare right now is destroying the health care of millions of working men and women. He used the word destroying. I agree with Mr. Hoffa.
CROWLEY: Because he wants a subsidy for collective union bargaining health care benefits.
CRUZ: I mean, let's be clear, what he's saying is that his workers are at risk of losing their health insurance, and that same thing is true. It's why U.P.S. just a few weeks ago sent a letter to 15,000 employees saying you're losing your spousal coverage. All of your Husbands and wives are losing the health insurance they have right now.
Now, there was a time when President Obama said if you like your health insurance, you can keep it. We need to make that commitment. We need to honor that commitment.
CROWLEY: I want to talk to you a little bit about the politics of this. President Obama gave an interview to the "Associated Press" recently and he had this to say about new senators. I think maybe you'll recognize or think this might be a little bit about you. "My attitude was," when he was a freshman senator, "I should just keep a pretty low profile in the Senate and just do the work. I didn't go around courting the media and I certainly didn't go around trying to shut down the government."
The president just the latest in a string of people who've been criticizing you that, in fact, you weren't here when Republicans fought tooth and nail to stop the president's health care bill. And now, you sort of join forces with people who are now calling your fellow Republicans rhinos, Republican in name only and they're soft Republicans and we need to replace them. What's your response to what the president has to say about you and others?
CRUZ: Look, the fact that you're saying so many nasty partisan jabs from Democrats and --
CROWLEY: And from Republicans as well.
CRUZ: But you just quoted the president, and certainly, Harry Reid and Senate Democrats have not been shy and using all sorts of ad hominem inflammatory attack, the fact that you're saying those attacks I think is indicative of the fact that we're winning the argument. Obamacare isn't working. You don't see any Democrats defending Obamacare.
CROWLEY: -- hasn't started.
CRUZ: But the harms have. People are losing their health insurance right now. That is because of Obamacare. People are being pushed into part-time work right now. that Is because of Obamacare. And so --
CROWLEY: And your Republican colleagues agree with you on that? They agree with you that they don't want the president's health care plan, many of them fought against it. They do not agree that shutting down the government is the appropriate way to -- and I know you think Harry -- I understand that your take is --
CRUZ: Let me be clear on this. Let me be clear on this. I don't support shutting down the government. I've said that throughout. And if you want to focus, as I think you do, on areas of bipartisan agreement, a week ago, the House passed a bill funding the men and women of our military.
CROWLEY: Right.
CRUZ: The senate unanimously passed it. But then, the House has passed eight other bills funding things like our veterans, funding things like the national parks, and Harry Reid has killed them. Now, let me be clear, because it's important to understand. These bills, none of them even mention Obamacare. They're programs completely unrelated to Obamacare.
And the position of President Obama and Harry Reid is, if you aren't funding everything in the government, they will fund nothing. You know, we launched a national website, fundourvets.com that says, listen, regardless of the shutdown, veterans ought to be above politics. They ought to be bipartisan agreement. We need to honor our commitments to our veterans.
CROWLEY: But obviously, they feel that if you can use this kind of leverage, they feel it's blackmail. But let me ask you something about your fellow Republicans.
CRUZ: But Candy, let me press back. It's twice you've said Harry Reid would say it's blackmail. And I want to press back, because I actually -- I think that's a false claim with no basis. The bill that the House passed on the VA simply funds the VA. It doesn't mention anything about Obamacare. It doesn't mention anything about anything else. Now, for hundreds of years, the way Congress is appropriated has been one topic at a time. How is it blackmail to say, we think we should fund the veterans? Do you agree? That's a yes or no vote. Now Harry Reid refuses to let the Democrats vote on that. But how is it blackmail to say, we may not agree on everything but is there anything we can agree on? We ought to agree on supporting our veterans.
CROWLEY: Do you think you hurt the Republican Party brand?
CRUZ: Not remotely. But I also think far too many people are worried about politics. Listen, if we worry about what is impacting the American people, the politics will take care of itself. The politicians that are gazing at polls, there is a reason why the most common sentiment across this country is that politicians in Washington aren't listening to us. There's a reason why Congress has 10 percent to 15 percent approval rating. In both parties, the politicians in Washington try to maintain their power instead of listening to the American people.
CROWLEY: But again, you know, you can listen to various portions of the American public. And we've seen poll after poll showing indeed that Americans are split about the president's plan. But in the portion of people that don't like it includes people who do want single payer, who think it doesn't go far enough. It is - it is existing law that you are trying to overturn. Why not just get out there and win elections and overturn it with the Republican Senate and a Republican House and a Republican in the White House? Instead of shutting down the government which I think you would concede hurts people who have nothing to do with Obamacare.
CRUZ: Listen, we did have an election. Republicans won a majority of the House of the Representatives. And the constitution gives the House of Representatives the principle responsibility for appropriations for spending. There was a press conference last week where Harry Reid said, who is John Boehner to decide what our priorities should be in spending? Well he's the speaker of the House and the constitution gives him that authority. Now there was also a press conference that I know you're familiar with, in which a reporter from CNN Dana Bash asked him about the NIH funding, funding for the National Institutes of Health. He said if you can save one kid with cancer, isn't it worth doing it? And his response, he said, why would I care about that? And then he proceeded to lecture and insult her. Now listen, Dana as you know is not some right-wing kook. She was doing her job and the response from the Democrats was, how dare you question us. We're going to shut down everything and we don't intend to budge. That's not a reasonable decision.
CROWLEY: I have to close it off there. Really wish we had more time. I hope you'll come back. Dana Bash by the way is a big girl. She's just fine but thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate it, Senator Ted Cruz. When we return, our panel on this week's winners and losers. Also Saturday's U.S. military raids against terrorists in Africa and whether they'll give the president a little more leverage for his domestic agenda.
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