CNN "State of the Union with Candy Crowley" - Transcript: Trayvon Martin Verdict
Interview
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice. CROWD: No peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice.
CROWD: No peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice.
CROWD: No peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice.
CROWD: No peace.
OBAMA: Eric Holder is reviewing what happened down there, but I think it's important for people to have some clear expectations here. Traditionally, these are issues of state and local government, the criminal code, and law enforcement is traditionally done at the state and local levels, not at the federal levels.
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CROWLEY: That was President Obama reacting to calls for the Justice Department to file civil rights charges against George Zimmerman while around the country yesterday there were rallies in the wake of last week's verdict. Joining me around this table for a look at the issue that's raised passions from both sides, Newt Gingrich, is CNN's CROSSFIRE host. Crystal Wright, editor and publisher of ConservativeBlackChick.com. We (ph) should also mention that she was a delegate for Newt Gingrich last year when he ran for president. Sherrilyn Ifill, president and director-counsel, of NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund. And Charles Blow, a CNN political commentator and opinion writer for "The New York Times." We're sort of out of time with all your titles.
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CROWLEY: But let me start with a basic question. It seems to me that the president was lowering expectations a little bit there in that part of his speech, saying, you know this is basically, you know, has to be the state and local level to change the laws. People on the street saying, justice for Trayvon. What is -- what does justice for Trayvon Martin look like?
GINGRICH: Let me just say what I've been struck with over the past week -- and I watched Charles on a couple of shows and other conversations about this, there are two things going on. There's actually a case involving a specific set of facts, and there's a national explosion as people suddenly look up and are reminded that 4 1/2 years into this presidency, there are very deep, painful problems that not only have not been addressed, not even discussed. So I think you have a psychological thing going on, which is in the streets, and you have a legal case, and the president is partly saying there is -- and I think he's hinting -- there is no legal ground for the Justice Department to reopen this case, but the country needs to have some kind of conversation about how big the gap is between the black community and the rest of the country.
CRYSTAL WRIGHT, CONSERVATIVEBLACKCHICK.COM: And I would argue with the speaker that not only are the dots not being connected in the streets, people that are protesting now, justice for Trayvon meant a guilty verdict for George Zimmerman, and the separate dialogue that none of us are talking about and the president alluded to is the huge poverty that has been dragging down black Americans for over 50 years, and that is a direct result of the breakdown of the black family. It's not like it's just happening out of nowhere, and that, I think, is part of the frustration we're not having an honest dialogue about.
SHERRILYN IFILL, NAACP LEGAL DEFENSE FUND: So as the lawyer on the set, let me say, first of all, I don't think the president was saying there's no hope at the federal level. I think he was managing expectations, and I think that's important for him to do. He was essentially saying there's going to be an investigation, but there's no guarantee that you can bring a hate crimes, a federal hate crimes action against George Zimmerman. I actually think the communities have been connecting the dots. I don't know that everybody's been listening. But people have been talking about poverty, the huge unemployment rate, especially for young African-American men in some cities reaching 50 percent and what that means. And you hear it bubble up from time to time, sometimes at presidential press conferences.
When people say justice for Trayvon, in this I have to say the speaker is right, they're talking about the case and ensuring that we do everything we can to ensure that someone is held and that George Zimmerman is held accountable for what happened to this young teenager, but we're also talking about the larger issue, and that's what the president spoke to. The larger issue of the way in which racial profiling across gender, across economic class affects African- Americans. It is the touchstone. It is the one thing that strikes to our very dignity, and that's what the president spoke to. Part of it is about law. But part of it is about something much broader.
CHARLES BLOW, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think all of that's right. I think there is the individual case, but I think people are worried deeply about the precedents that are set if a person is allowed to walk away from killing someone and have no culpability in that whatsoever. And that -- I think that walking away speaks to the structural biases that exist within the system and within the laws, and people don't want those structural biases to (INAUDIBLE) to kind of get away scot-free.
CROWLEY: Let me - and I will let you make a point, Newt, in just a second, but I want to bring in somebody else. I want to show you something first that happened last year on the House floor, when one congressman broke official decorum and put on a hoodie after Trayvon Martin was killed but before George Zimmerman was charged in his death.
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RUSH: Racial profiling has to stop, Mr. Speaker. Just because someone wears a hoodie does not make them a hoodlum. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Joining me from Chicago is Illinois congressman Bobby Rush, who was there on the House floor, as you just saw. Congressman, I heard a couple of things here. I know that you are having an urban violence seminar, meeting coming up. You represent one of the most certainly violent districts in Illinois. You've had a lot of problems with poverty, et cetera. When you look at, not the trial itself, but the aftermath, as Newt Gingrich was talking about, where do you see the base of this problem?
RUSH: Well, it certainly lies in every community in which there is a significant black population, in every state, every city, every municipality in America. There's not one inch of America that does not have this problem where there are minorities and where there are whites who are citizens. It's here in Chicago. Two years before Trayvon Martin, here in Chicago, we had a young homeless man who was accused of stealing a piece of -- a small container of toothpaste, and they said he ran out of the store. He was chased by a security guard down the street. Four or five people held him down, and the security guard strangled him to death. When I wrote in protest to the Cook County state's attorney, she said that she was not going to press -- bow down to political charges - political charges and charge this assailant with murder. So he's walking the street. Anthony Kyser preceded Trayvon Martin. So it's all over America.
CROWLEY: Has there been no improvement, congressman? In the years -- you have fought this battle for a very long time, and I think some things -- people feel like the fact that there is an African- American president says an awful lot about this country and prejudice.
RUSH: Candy, at certain levels it does. At certain levels it does. OK? At certain levels lit does. Young people -- and I wore that hoodie on the Congress floor, in the well of the Congress, I wore that to connect with the young people, to encourage them, because if it had not been for the courageousness of young people going to the streets, then Trayvon Martin would have been just like Anthony Kyser. No one would have known that he was murdered.
CROWLEY: Gotcha. RUSH: Yes. So that was my purpose. That was my purpose. There has been some progress. I don't want to say there has not. But any time during this trial, I think probably the most vivid picture that I can't get out of my head was this was the defense attorney and his daughters licking the ice cream.
It suddenly reminded me of pictures that I had seen years ago of lynch mobs standing around a black man hanging on a tree, and they were in all kinds of expressions of euphoria. It kind of brought these things back.
CROWLEY: Congressman let me - yes. Let me ask you to hold on a second. I want to get some reaction from our panel. Earlier, I cut you off. I want to give you the chance to --
GINGRICH: This fits perfectly with what I was going to say earlier. You have a congressman -- and I respect Bobby Rush. You have a congressman who represents the most violent city in America. You have a congressman who represents the city in which over 500 people were killed last year, 74 percent of them African-American. You have a congressman who represents the city which is 80 percent of the killings, according to police, are by gangs. Gangs have increased -- let me finish. Gangs have increased by 40 percent since this president was elected. There is no federal program to stop it. No one wants to have an honest conversation about it. And so you have a congressman whose own district is bleeding, who puts on a hoodie as a symbolic act, but he doesn't do anything about the gangs in his own district.
RUSH: Wait a minute.
CROWLEY: Hang on. First of all, congressman, let me let you --
RUSH: That's a charge, Newt, that is not going to hold, doesn't hold water. I have been working relentlessly since I've been in Congress, even when you were the speaker of the House and didn't want to hear any of these matters. I have been working on trying to deal with this violence. I'm astounded and ashamed about this violence. But this is also systemic to an overall problem. Chicago will take care of this violence. That's one of the reasons why on a Friday, the 26th, we're having this National Summit on Urban Violence. This was before the verdict we had planned this. The congressional black caucus is coming into Chicago so that we can work on solutions to this problem.
Now, what I challenge you to, Newt, especially today, I want to challenge you and your Republican cohorts. Today is a Sunday. Today is a day of worship. We serve and worship the same God. In Michael 6:3 and 8, the words tell us that we should love justice, do mercy, and walk humbly with our God. Now, for those folks who are cheering the George Zimmerman verdict, I would challenge you and the rest of the, let us honor, and let us lift up the spirit of the words of Michael 6:8 (ph) to work together to have the conversation, but not just have the conversation. Let us deal with the disenfranchisement, and let us deal with the distortions as it relates to our nation. CROWLEY: I know everybody wants to respond. I need to take a quick break. We will continue this conversation when we return. I want to get your responses to Bobby Rush. We'll be right back.
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CROWLEY: We are back with Newt Gingrich, Crystal Wright, Sherrilyn Ifill, and Charles Blow, as well as Congressman Bobby Rush.
GINGRICH: In the spirit of congressman Rush's last statement, I've been working for six months to try to get the black caucus and the House Republicans to swap districts. I think nothing would be more helpful than to get three days of the black member going into a Republican district and three days of that Republican going into a black district. So to whatever degree Bobby can help me to get this to happen, I think that begins a conversation that's real.
WRIGHT: But also wait. I want to pick up on something about what Republicans -- excuse me, Representative Rush because you had some time here, and you accused Republicans of not doing anything. Senator Mark Kirk got $19 million in funding to combat the epidemic of gang violence in Chicago. Representative Rush called him an elitist white boy because he's trying to solve a problem. You have 100,000 gang members in Chicago. This year alone 200 people were slaughtered, mostly blacks. Wait a minute. I just want to finish one point here. Over the holiday weekend, July 4th, 62 gunned down in Chicago -- I mean, shot. 12 died. I want to say one final thing. In 1965 Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote "The Negro Family, The Case for National Action." You know what he found was dragging down black Americans, the illegitimate birth rate at the time was 23 percent. And there was increasing rise - wait a minute this is important.
CROWLEY: I need to get other folks in here.
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WRIGHT: Increasing rise in 1965, and the birth rate is 73 percent. That is the problem --
IFILL: You've had your time. Here is the issue. In communities all over this country, I've lived in Baltimore for 20 years, the same is true in Chicago, Gary, Indiana, in New York, big cities all over this country. African-Americans have been at the fore of pushing against gang violence, against black on black crime. Every time one of these issues comes up, what we hear is this issue about black on black crime. The fact that there is crime within race, and there's no such thing as black on black crime. Most crime happens within the same race. There's white on white crime too. The reality is we live in a gun-soaked violent society. And what this verdict does is it takes a very particular issue that African-Americans for a long time have had with law enforcement, the issue of racial profiling, and now because of the stand your ground laws, because of our gun-soaked society, because of the concealed weapon laws. We're essentially saying that average citizens like George Zimmerman, who have a fear in our racially anxious society, that a young teenager is a threat, can kill that teenager and can kill that teenager with impunity, the issue of gang violence does not change the reality --
RUSH: I must -- I must -- I must say this. I must say this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The issue is not crime in the black community.
CROWLEY: Here's the thing. We can't hear any of you when everyone is talking. Congressman, if you'll hold on for one second, I just want to get Charles Blow in here and I promise I will -- since we have talked about your district here. Go ahead, Charles.
BLOW: I just hate when we reduce problems and try to say this one thing...
CROWLEY: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK) BLOW: ... is the problem. Racial scars are deep and racial memories are long. And I think that once you understand that a lot of things go into creating problems and there will be a lot of factors that will go into solving problems and we are not reductive in the way that we think about solutions to problems, that we understand that how bias works within us and within the system, that we understand that there is explicit bias and there is -- there is also implicit bias that we're not even aware of. That that feeds into a system, whether or not that is a police officer and the way that they interact with people that they come into contact with or whether or not that is a health care provider and whether or not they provide the appropriate and equal kinds of treatment. All of that -
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CROWLEY: Let me --
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Let me -- hang on one second.
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Congressman, can I just ask you a quick question here...
RUSH: Sure.
CROWLEY: ... because we don't have much time. Would you...
RUSH: Yes.
CROWLEY: ... go to Newt Gingrich's old district in -- whatever its current permutation is and stay there for three or four days go there and walk those streets? And I will ask the speaker if he's willing to go to your Chicago district. RUSH: Candy, I would do it in a heartbeat, but let me just say because I want us to understand that I not only am a member of Congress, I pastor a church. I pastor a church in the Englewood community. As soon as I get off this seat right now, I'm going to jump in my car and head to my congregation to preach this morning, all right? The Englewood community is probably one of the most violent communities in the city. I'm there. I've been there for 10 years. What I am calling on not only Newt but the other Republicans is if they are really believe in their faith, if they are really going to church this morning and it really makes a difference to them, then I am -- if there's one lord, one faith and one baptism, then demonstrate that. Demonstrate that by not just...
CROWLEY: Congressman -
RUSH: ... pointing fingers -- not pointing fingers at the problem.
CROWLEY: But joining in with the solution.
RUSH: But understand there is a real serious issue of disinvestment in our communities. Disinvestment.
(CROSSTALK)
CROWLEY: I hope you will come back, Congressman. I am really running up against the clock. Thank you so much. You've got 15 seconds --
RUSH: Newt, count me in, Newt. Count me in. And you come to Chicago.
GINGRICH: We'll get both sides to talk to each other.
RUSH: Count me -- count me in.
CROWLEY: We have an agreement.
RUSH: Count me in. You and I.
CROWLEY: Thank you so much, Newt Gingrich, Crystal Wright, Sherrilyn Ifill, Charles Blow, and of course Bobby Rush. Thank you.
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