MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript - Health Care and Entitlements

Interview

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SCHULTZ: He exactly right. But there`s one part of President Obama`s agenda which has progressive out there very concerned. And that is the offer to switch to a chained CPI formula for Social Security. Any defender of the big three knows that that`s really just political speak for cutting benefits. No one knows this better or has fought harder to protect those benefits than my next guest.

Joining me tonight, Senator Bernie Sanders, independent from Vermont. Senator, good to have you with us tonight.This report from the trustees, the board of trustees, their annual report, pretty much is evidence that what we`re trying to do in the progressive agenda in this country is correct for people. Your thoughts?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: Well, what it tells us is what everybody who studied the issue already knows. And that is, Ed, Social Security can pay out every benefit owed to every eligible American for the next 20 years.

Despite our right-wing friend`s assertion, Social Security is not going bankrupt, it is not in crisis. What our goal is first to prevent any cuts to Social Security, because you know and I know that millions and millions of seniors are just hanging in there economically, having trouble buying their prescription drugs, keeping their homes warm in the winter time. We must not cut Social Security.

The so-called chained CPI would make a cut of $650 ten years out. If you`re 65, by the time you`re 75, $650 a year less than you otherwise would have gotten also makes cuts and benefits for disabled veterans unacceptable.

SCHULTZ: What about Medicare? I mean, this is the most positive news that Obamacare, because this was a focal point of what the Republicans were saying before the last election. Were they lying?

SANDERS: Yes. I mean, the bottom line is, one of the reasons that we are making substantial progress in cutting the deficit has to do with the fact that spending and health care in general and in Medicare is going down. That is really good news. And in fact, some of what we have done in the Congress through the Affordable Care Act has squeezed some of the waste out of health care and also, we have done a better job in terms of wellness and disease prevention, which is going to pay dividends in years to come. Having said that, Ed, we have got to be mindful that today, we continue to spend twice per capita on health care as do the people of any other nation despite having millions of people with no insurance. And that is why in my view, we`ve got to go beyond Obamacare, move to a single-payer health care system, which can guarantee health care to all people in a much more cost effective way.

SCHULTZ: So, we`re on the same page. I was asked the question by our viewers tonight in the "Ask Ed" segment, what would you advise President to do?

We`ve got to go round two. We`ve got to do round two of health care. If they want to keep voting Obamacare down in the House, you`ve got to be offensive and go after it the other way and counter it and say it`s time now to go to round two and talk about universal health care, because universal health care polls better than anything else in medical coverage provided in this country. And we don`t talk about it enough.

SANDERS: Ed, I just had the ambassador from Denmark coming to Vermont a couple of weeks ago. In Denmark, this is what he told us. All of their people have universal health care, you go to a doctor, you don`t take your wallet out. You go to the hospital, you don`t take your wallet out, and they end up spending about 50 percent per capita of what we spend on health care, because they don`t have for-profit health care systems, health care insurance companies ripping off the system or all of the waste and bureaucracy that we have. They put a much greater emphasis on primary health care, which is the right thing to do for people`s health and it saves money long-term.

SCHULTZ: What about the Democrats protecting Social Security and not getting on this chained CPI bandwagon? I mean, how much of a push is it going to take to get that off the table?

SANDERS: All right. Let me give you the bad fuse and let me give you the good news. The bad news, as you know, the president has proposed this so- called chained CPI. The good news is I offered an amendment during the budget debate and it got passed unanimously, and the resolution was, in opposition to a chained CPI. Nobody wanted to stand up, nobody. And say, I think it`s a good idea to cut Social Security. Tom Harkin introduced the resolution. He has 18 co- sponsors on that, no cuts in chained CPI.

Also, this is what I`m perceiving and why I believe, Ed, we`re going to win this, because the average politician out there, when he or she is running for office and gets back to their district, you know what, they`re not campaigning on, I`m going to cut Social Security and benefits for disabled veterans. That may sound good in Capitol Hill, but it does not sound good among the American people, who overwhelmingly understand that the way to deficit reduction is end to these huge corporate loopholes, one out of four corporations, not paying a nickel in taxes, at a time when the wealthy are becoming phenomenally wealthier, ask them to start paying their fair share of taxes. Don`t cut Social Security, don`t cut Medicare.

SCHULTZ: Senator Sanders, always a pleasure. Good to have you with us on this Sunday evening. Thank you so much.

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