MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript
Interview
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Congressman Welch joins us right now.
Basically, if you can take a minute, Congressman, lay out the alternative, not just the bellicose opposition to the president. Everybody"s doing that now out on the left, the progressive roots. But just tell me, how would you proceed between now through the rest of December, through however long it took? How would you fight this fight, if you will?
REP. PETER WELCH (D), VERMONT: Well, the president said that the American people agreed with him that we shouldn"t be going on the credit card to extend tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires. And I think he should have hung in there.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: And done what? And tell me that route and where it goes.
Lead him. Tell him where the president should have gone.
WELCH: Well, first of all, I think he"s got the bully pulpit and he ultimately has the veto pen. He"s got a lot of power. And what he"s dealing with--and I have a lot of sympathy on this--is an intractable Senate-Republican leadership that will not cooperate.
And the two things that are a problem here--and this is why I think, down the road, this leads to much more difficulty for us--is, one, a trillion-dollar deeper hole on our deficit.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Yes, I know. Congressman, I have only got a little time.
I want you to tell me what he should do. If you don"t cut a deal with the Republicans, the taxes goes up for everybody this January 1. Are you willing to accept that? Because the Republicans are not going to give you 60 votes to do it your way in the Senate, as you point out.
WELCH: He says no. We have got 53 votes in the Senate. And the president has to say no to them and engage the American people.
Here"s the bottom line. If the American people know that the choice is between the Republican position to hold unemployment benefits hostage and the middle-class tax cuts for 98 percent of the people hostage, or the president"s position, they are going to come down, I believe, on the side of the president.
And will that then be expressed by them against senators who are holding out with a filibuster? The president"s got to have, as I think all of us have to have, ultimately some confidence that the American people are going to know what"s good for them. A trillion dollars added on to the debt is not good for them. This is the political trap that the Republicans have been so successful in setting before.
MATTHEWS: OK. So you believe that the average tax--the majority of the American people out there would support not getting their tax cuts because the president comes out and says, the reason you"re not getting your tax cuts, or you"re actually going to get a tax increase, is because they"re trying to fight for the rich?
And you think they would buy that?
WELCH: You know, Chris, I think the American people are getting pretty cynical about what is going on here, because this is an absurd situation, where literally 98 percent of the people would get a tax cut under President Bush--or under President Obama"s plan, and the Republicans are holding it up.
MATTHEWS: OK.
WELCH: And then we blink. I think we blinked too soon. There"s a couple more innings in this game.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
WELCH: We could keep--
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: I think he wants to use those innings to get don"t ask,
don"t tell through, to get the New START nuclear treaty through. And if he
does go a couple more innings, as you suggest--I"m just making his case -
right through Christmas--
WELCH: Yes.
MATTHEWS: -- nothing gets done. Republicans get control of the House next year. Nothing"s going to get down on don"t ask, don"t tell, and they"re going to cream you guys.
WELCH: You know what? And that"s absolutely the position that they have used. And they have done a stick-up--
MATTHEWS: Yes.
WELCH: -- time and again.
Well, let me finish and make one last point.
MATTHEWS: Sure.
WELCH: This is the political trap that they have set. And before the ink is dry on this deal that they have demanded, the Republican leadership will accuse the president of being a budget-buster, fiscally reckless, and accuse him of adding a trillion dollars to the deficit.
And just look at what John Boehner is doing. He"s saying, let the Democrats do the dirty work. He"s not even telling the president he will get the voters to get this passed.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
WELCH: That should tell us something about what is going on here.
MATTHEWS: Well, we"re going to be watching that, sir.
Congressman Welch, we"re going to be watching the House for the next couple weeks to see if he does get to 218. I always like to remind people, it takes 218 to do anything.
Thank you so much for joining us. Happy Christmas to you, sir.
WELCH: Thank you.
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