MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript

Interview

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STABENOW: Yes. It"s good to be back.

MADDOW: There are reports tonight that House Democrats will hold a vote tomorrow on the middle tax cuts, letting the tax cuts for income over $250,000 a year expire, effectively calling the Republicans" bluff.

Do you expect that the Senate might do the same thing?

STABENOW: I do, Rachel. We have every intention of bringing up that vote, putting folks on the line, having to decide--in fact, it was interesting today on the floor of the Senate, a number of us on the floor throughout the day.

And Senator Schumer actually asked a Republican colleague today on the floor after he objected to extending unemployment benefits if they would be willing to accept extending tax cuts for folks up to $1 million, but not beyond. And he wasn"t willing to answer that. He was asked that several times.

And so, it"s very clear what this is about -- $700 billion, not paid for, going on the national debt, a policy as you pointed out in my comments earlier that doesn"t work, hasn"t worked. You know, they"ve had this policy in place of extra tax cuts for 10 years, and I just want to know where are the jobs? We"ve lost over 800,000 jobs in Michigan. If this had worked, I"d be on the floor fighting to continue it. But it hasn"t worked.

MADDOW: President Obama has set up a bipartisan group to try to reach some sort of compromise on this issue. I have been hearing a lot of "no compromise" rhetoric from the other side--

STABENOW: Right.

MADDOW: -- from the Republican side over the last few weeks. Do you think that the Republicans will be willing to compromise on this issue? They"ll be willing to trade away something on this?

STABENOW: I"ll be very surprised. I mean, obviously, the president is reaching out, that"s his job to reach out. He has his position, his principles.

He"s been very clear about supporting continuing tax cuts for 97 percent of the American public. And that"s been very clear. But he"s trying to get some discussion going. I appreciate that.

But the bottom line is that we can"t afford another $700 billion going on the national debt. Imagine, the deficit commission coming out with proposals on Social Security and Medicare. Can you imagine what else they"ll have to come out with if we add another $700 billion to the national debt?

So, it"s jobs, the debt, Social Security, Medicare, people who were out of work, holding Medicare--the middle class tax cuts and small business tax cuts hostage. I mean, these guys really will stop everything, risk everything, just to give another average $100,000 tax cut a year for millionaires in this country.

MADDOW: Hearing you make that case here on this show right now--hearing you make that case today on the Senate floor, seeing the visuals, the signs that you put up today and helping them make that case on the Senate floor, it"s clear that you are trying to not only make your own case, but essentially to make the Republicans answer for what you see is the political payroll in their own position.

You are somebody who is--have a long career in politics, who understands how these things work in nuts and bolts terms. How do you make the other side pay a political price when they"re taking a stance that"s against the public polling, that you think is against the national interest, and that really ought to be something that strikes the country as unpopular?

STABENOW: Well, I think--I think it"s certainly unpopular in Michigan, when folks lay out what the tradeoffs are. And I think we have to be willing to say no to holding middle class tax cuts hostage and help for small businesses.

And by the way, Rachel, we have had 16 different tax cuts that we have passed in the last two years. They have filibustered every single one of them--eight of those just a couple of months ago in the small business jobs bill.

So, we"re not going to be lectured by folks about small business. I mean, we"re the ones that are out there fighting for small business as well as the middle class. And in my judgment, we have to be willing to draw a line in the sand and be able to say we"re not going any farther and be willing to walk away.

If they want to hold the country hostage for $700 billion more in debt with an economic policy that"s cost us jobs, I think we need to say no.

MADDOW: On that point, do you think the Democrats would be willing to walk away, to say, listen, these can expire, we can deal with it retroactively some other time, but when it comes down to holding tax cuts for the middle class hostage to this deficit-busting $700 billion worth of bonuses for the richest people in the country, we"re not going to do it? Could Democrats let the tax cuts expire?

STABENOW: Well, I think the majority of us feel that way. And the question is always around the margins in terms of what ultimately happens. But this is a very strong sentiment in our caucus. And people who are very, very concerned, both about the debt in this country, about jobs, and about what"s happening to middle class families that are seeing their house under water and their own economic situation under water.

And they--the vast majority in our caucus feels very strongly about this.

MADDOW: Democratic Senator Debbie Stabenow of Michigan, helping us make some news here tonight in our coverage of this issue--thanks very much for your time tonight, ma"am. It"s nice to see you.

STABENOW: Always good to be with you.

MADDOW: Thanks.

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