Fox News The Big Story with John Gibson-Transcript
Fox News Network
SHOW: THE BIG STORY WITH JOHN GIBSON (17:19)
April 15, 2004 Thursday
HEADLINE: Interview with Congressman James Sensenbrenner; Interview with Sen. Lou D'Allesandro (D-NH)
GUESTS: James Sensenbrenner, Lou D'Allesandro
BYLINE: John Gibson
BODY:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is, in my mind, one of the finest members of the commission, one of the hardest working members of the commission. And, by the way, one of the most nonpartisan and bipartisan members of the commission, so people ought to stay out of our business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIBSON: That, of course, is the head of the 9/11 Commission defending Jamie Gorelick. She's under fire with calls for her resignation because she was second in command at the Justice Department during the Clinton administration. Wisconsin Congressman James Sensenbrenner says Gorelick's former job poses a conflict of interest, and she should step down. Today's big question, isn't everyone on the 9/11 panel playing partisan politics, including this little kafuffle? Mr. Sensenbrenner, did you hear the question?
I didn't know the question was to me.
GIBSON: Yes, it definitely is to you.
REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R-WI) CHAIRMAN, HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: OK. I think the 9/11 Commission should have stuck to the issues and not spent most of their time on talk shows, both on radio and TV. I think we would have gotten down to the bottom of what caused 9/11 and the intelligence failures a lot easier. The issue is not whether Ms. Gorelick is a good member of the commission or bipartisan or hardworking. The issue is whether she has a conflict of interest, and she does have a conflict of interest. The commission rules specifically state that commissioners should recuse themselves when the commission is dealing with issues relating to former government service. Ms. Gorelick was the point person in the Justice Department on information sharing or lack of information sharing between the CIA and the Justice Department.
And we know as a fact that Zacarias Moussaoui ended up being able to hide information that was in his computer because the Justice Department couldn't get a search warrant and that two of the hijackers that crashed the planes in the Pentagon were in the United States. The CIA knew about it, and because of this wall that Gorelick heightened beyond what was legally required, the CIA couldn't tell the FBI to try to track them down.
GIBSON: OK, but Mr. Sensenbrenner, let me just lay it out here. What you are saying is because she signed the memo that reinstated, or reiterated or reminded the CIA and the FBI that they could not exchange information, she built the wall or buttressed the wall that ...
SENSENBRENNER: She heightened the wall.
GIBSON: She heightened the wall. OK. Fine. She heightened the wall. And that what this commission is doing is investigating that very thing, so she should not be part of the investigation. Correct?
SENSENBRENNER: Absolutely. Absolutely. And what she is doing is she's draining (ph) her own work on it. And the commission's report can't be objective when you have one of the active participants in heightening the wall and then supervising exchanges or lack of exchanges between the CIA and the FBI.
GIBSON: Mr. Sensenbrenner, last night on "HANNITY & COLMES"-and I know you watch that show all the time-Dick Morris said if there's one person who can be blamed for 9/11, it's Jamie Gorelick. That that memo she signed, as you put it, that heightened the wall, prevented the CIA from informing the FBI, prevented Moussaoui's computer from being opened, prevented us from discovering the plot before it occurred. Do you think he is going too far, or is that about right as far as you are concerned?
SENSENBRENNER: From everything I have seen, that's about right, and that should disqualify Gorelick from participating in the commission, and my answer to Governor Keane ...
GIBSON: Do you blame her as Dick Morris does?
SENSENBRENNER: Well, I don't think any one individual can be blamed. The system was in charge, but Gorelick testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee in October of 1995 that she was the point person in the Justice Department on information sharing, so if the buck stopped anywhere, it stopped with her.
GIBSON: OK. Explain something to me. You know how this works, and I don't. They knew this. Tom Keane knew this. Lee Hamilton knew this. They had to know this. How can we get this far-and finally John Ashcroft waves around this piece of paper and throws it up for everybody to see, and Keane, a Republican, is saying Ashcroft should butt out of the commission's business. How could we get to this point when they knew all this and this issue not be handled privately a long time ago?
SENSENBRENNER: Well, if Gorelick really wanted to be objective and to make sure that the commission's recommendations were objective, she never would have accepted appointment to the commission in the first place.
GIBSON: How could Tom Keane be defending her if that's the case?
SENSENBRENNER: Well, Tom Keane is going to have to answer that. The question is-this is the public's business. 9/11 was a tragedy in the history of our country, and for Tom Keane to say that very serious allegations on who was responsible for this wall is none of anybody's business but the commission's, just completely blows off the public. It is the public's concern, and Keane ought to be concerned about it because it goes directly to the objectivity of any report the commission ends up coming up with.
GIBSON: Wisconsin Congressman James Sensenbrenner. Congressman, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
SENSENBRENNER: Thank you.
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