Hearing of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee - Aviation Security

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE SENATE COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE

SUBJECT: AVIATION SECURITY

CHAIRED BY: SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ)

WITNESSES PANEL I: ASA HUTCHINSON, UNDER SECRETARY, BORDER AND TRANSPORTATION SECURITY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY;

PANEL II:

THOMAS J. KINTON, JR., DIRECTOR OF AVIATION, MASSACHUSETTS PORT AUTHORITY;

JAMES MAY, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, AIR TRANSPORT ASSOCIATION;

PATRICIA FRIEND, INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS-CWA

LOCATION: 253 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

BODY:
SEN. BYRON L. DORGAN (D-ND): Mr. Chairman, the answer to what they have done to Senator Burns' confiscated pocket knives are they have actually developed a contract and are paying a company to come in and gather all this material. I have complained about that because frankly, there are organizations that will do that free. Goodwill industries and others have indicated they would very much like to gather this material and resell it. And yet the federal government is now paying money under a contract to a company-to a company that comes in and acquires them. I'd appreciate, Mr. Secretary, take a look at that. Senator Wyden and I have complained to them about it about the waste of money.

If I might mention one other thing, I don't agree with my colleague from Montana on the question of a terrorist trying to blow up an airplane. The shoe bomber actually tried to blow up an airplane.

He was a terrorist and the FBI said, had he had a butane lighter, he would have been able to light the fuse under his tennis shoe and probably would have blown up the airplane.

Now, Senator Wyden, I have also complained. I would like, Secretary Hutchinson, if you'd look into this. About 10 months to 12 months ago, the rules have changed so that passengers can now bring on an airplane two butane lighters and four books of matches. And I frankly, for the life of me, don't understand that. We've been warned that there are incendiary materials that terrorists would want to disguise in a stuffed animal or a pillow to bring on an airplane to ignite. I don't understand why we would change the rule to allow two butane lighters and four books of matches to be on someone's person when they board a plane.

And the agency, TSA, has told us that, among other things in their letter, that some people have sentimental attachment to their lighters. I don't know of anybody who has a sentimental attachment to a BIC lighter. But if they do, they need more than an airplane trip. But my point is, I hope you will take a look at that again because, if somebody goes on an airplane and lights a shoe bomb with a butane lighter, the FBI has already warned us on that, that the shoe bomber would have ignited the bomb, had he had a butane lighter. So I just make that point.

I'd just like to ask for a moment, Mr. Secretary, about the episode last week where people were running from the Capitol building. We had a circumstance where there was an evacuation. I saw a news report last night in which, with people running, women were told, Take off your shoes and run as fast as you can. Some people said thirty seconds of impact. There was an evacuation and the suggestion was there was an airplane about to impact the U.S. Capitol. My understanding of that is that was a governor's airplane that came in with a transponder failure and there was a communications failure between the FAA and the proper Defense agency.

Might I ask, were airplanes scrambled and did they intercept that airplane that came in without the transponder before the airplane landed at this point? Do you know?

MR. HUTCHINSON: We are reviewing that very thoroughly. I have been briefed on that personally and first of all, the plane that didn't have a workable transponder should not have been allowed into that airspace and there should have been a clear communication between FAA and our Transportation Security Operations Center, where we had the Capitol police and the law enforcement personnel located. I think obviously those shortcomings have to be addressed, are being addressed. In reference to the response by Air Assets, there were-we did send out, I believe it was a Blackhawk and another aircraft. I don't know whether the Department of Defense took any action or not. But we did actually deploy.

SEN. DORGAN: The reason I ask the question, when you review that, I have no idea whether the news accounts were correct. But the news accounts indicated that at 4:24 p.m., Air Defense officials ordered fighters and helicopters to intercept it. Then it said that actually, at 4:34, which is 10 minutes later, a helicopter and a Cessna Citation lifted off just as the other airplane was on final. It's not clear to me exactly whether there were airplanes that scrambled and didn't intercept it and whether they scrambled in a reasonable time.

MR. HUTCHINSON: I believe what you have-it was not intercepted. They were scrambled but it was not intercepted.

SEN. DORGAN: You know, Mr. Secretary, all of us want you to succeed. I have indicated before, I have a lot of confidence in you. I've served with you. We want you to succeed because our country's safety depends on agencies making good decisions and having the resources to succeed. And I don't want, when I talk about the lighters or talk about the contracts and so on, the contract to dispose of this acquired material at airports, to pay somebody to do that is just a waste of the taxpayers' money. There are national organizations that told us they'll come in, they'll take all of that for nothing because they can resell those knives and scissors. So we don't pay anybody to do that. Please review that contract.

MR. HUTCHINSON: I will.

SEN. DORGAN: And on the other little issues, Senator Wyden and I-it's kind of been a burr under our saddle for many, many months, because it doesn't make any sense for somebody to go on an airplane with two butane lighters and four books of matches, given what we know about what the shoe bomber did and given what we know about the warnings about people who want to bring stuffed animals and pillows on with incendiary devices. So take a look at those, if you would.

MR. HUTCHINSON: We certainly share our concern about explosive material and we will look at those policies that you indicated.

SEN. DORGAN: And again, Mr. Secretary, thank you for your service. We appreciate you being here today.