MSNBC "Countdown With Keith Olbermann" - Transcript

Interview

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We‘re now to be joined by Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon, member of the finance committee.

Thank you greatly for your time just now, Senator.

SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: Thanks for having me, Keith.

OLBERMANN: As we just mentioned, some of your Democratic colleagues, tonight, having taken to the floor to demand a real public option in that bill. You and 29 of your colleagues have written to the majority leader today urging him, quote, "to fight for a sustainable health care system that insures Americans the option of public plan in the merged Senate bill."

What‘s standing in your way? Why has this, in fact, become the third rail of what the majority of Americans want, and an overwhelming majority Democratic lawmakers want to make it happen?

WYDEN: Keith, we are taking on the status quo caucus and it is led by the insurance companies and they don‘t want the American people to have real choices. Look, I‘ll be real clear about what I want. I want to make sure that hardworking Americans aren‘t forced to buy lousy, unaffordable health insurance from monopolies. We shouldn‘t subsidize the wrong people to do the wrong stuff. We ought to make sure that all Americans have choices--public choices, private choices--so we can turn the tables on the insurance lobby and get a square deal for the public.

OLBERMANN: Senator, the flavor of the month or at least today is this opt-out plan. Is this really the silver bullet or is it another way to make sure there is no actual public option?

WYDEN: I don‘t see how it puts the consumer in the driver seat. I want all consumers to have what members of Congress have.

You said something very powerful last night, Keith. You made it personal. You talk about your situation with your family. What people who are well-off can have.

Well, members of Congress are well-off. They can have access in Washington, D.C. to more than a dozen good quality policies. They can‘t discriminate against you. They can‘t cherry-pick. They have low administrative cost.

I want to make sure that all consumers get a fair shake. In these opt-out ideas at this point, I don‘t see them turning the tables on the insurance lobby.

OLBERMANN: Senator Grassley, as we heard a clip of it a little bit earlier, today argued on this network that the Baucus bill would hurt the American people because the insurance industry would pass along any tax that might fill or any even lowering the profits it might feel on the way of higher premiums for everybody.

It seems to me that Senator Grassley never runs out of objections. He did, in fact, help to write the Baucus bill.

How would you characterize his work this year on this, and indeed, of the so-called "gang of six" in its entirety?

WYDEN: I think, when you look at their product, and, clearly, they tried really hard--a lot more needs to be done to make sure that you hold the insurance companies accountable. When politicians give speeches about how citizens ought to get the same deal as the members of Congress, they ought to look at this legislation and they‘ll see that millions of Americans won‘t get any choices at all, let alone what members of Congress get.

OLBERMANN: All right. So, you, at the last minute, put in an amendment that everybody would get the right to select their own form of plan in an insurance exchange. And accorded to 2:00 in the morning, the chairman, Mr. Baucus, told you that your amendment was out of order because it had been scored--or in non-Senate language, not priced out yet by the CBO, the Congressional Budget Office.

What was your reaction to that?

WYDEN: Keith, it was obviously a disappointing evening. But we‘re not given up. The fact of the matter is, when you‘re taking on the insurance lobbies and you‘re standing up for the American people, there‘s a whole lot more of us than there are of them.

They are slicing a fat hog. There‘s no question about it. They are trying to protect their profit.

But if we can do what you started to do last night, which was to educate the public, make a personal, make sure that folks understand that what we‘re pointing for is the same kind of square deal that members of Congress get, we can win this.

OLBERMANN: Well, thank you for your kind words about that.

It was not your amendment--had it not already been scored by the CBO? Was there some confusion on the chairman‘s part?

WYDEN: All I‘ll say about that, Keith, is we offered the amendment that had been scored by the Congressional Budget Office. They said it would produce savings for the American people. They said it wouldn‘t destabilize the employer-based system.

What it was designed to do was to send a message that if you‘re going to turn the tables on the insurance lobby, if you‘re going to put the consumer on the driver‘s seat, everybody has got to have more choices. The way it works for a member of Congress--and frankly those other federal workers, say, the janitor at the federal bureau, if somebody rips that janitor off in the fall of 2009, come January of 2010, they can get a better deal. You hold the insurers accountable.

OLBERMANN: Senator Wyden, will you voting that finance bill out of committee, do you think?

WYDEN: I‘m going to be spending my weekend, Keith, trying to improve it. We‘ve got a number of days to go. If you and others will keep trying to educate the public, what you did last night, was you made it personal, and you showed people what‘s really at stake. If we can educate people between now and then, we can still get some more changes.

OLBERMANN: All right. Amen. Happy to be of some small help.

Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon and the Senate Finance Committee--a great pleasure. Thanks for your time tonight.

WYDEN: Thank you, Keith.

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