MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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But first we begin with Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick. Governor Patrick, thanks for your time. We appreciate it. Give me the degree of difficulty, if you could--one to ten, ten being the most difficult--in arriving at who you chose to fill Ted Kennedy"s Senate seat.

GOV. DEVAL PATRICK (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Well, you know, Mike, I give it probably an eight. You know, it"s a headache, in a way, politically that I don"t need. But I think when you think about the greater good, the interests of the commonwealth of Massachusetts and the people interests who people"s interests that are being voted on in the next few weeks and months in the Congress, we need that second voice to help John Kerry and to have a full complement of votes on those issues.

So I think having the depth of talent that--political talent that we do in Massachusetts, as you well know, and a very strong field of finalists about six in number, half of them women, a couple of people of color, as well--and then thinking mainly about the need for stewardship, someone who is going to respect and continue the values and mission of Ted Kennedy, Paul Kirk is a perfect choice.

BARNICLE: And here was Paul Kirk earlier today, Governor, if we could listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL KIRK (D-MA), SENATORIAL APPOINTEE: It is a profound honor and I accept it with sincere humility. To also have the encouragement and support of his family that I be a voice and a voice--and a vote for his causes and his constituents in the Senate that he loved is a blessing I can only repay by giving my very best efforts to be the best public servant I can be in the few months ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BARNICLE: You Know, Governor, most people--everybody in politics, actually, and a lot of people in America--are familiar, vaguely familiar, some very familiar, with the comedy show that took place in Illinois with Governor Blagojevich. Tell us, if you can, about any pressures that were brought to bear upon you by the family, the Kennedy family, by the White House? Or what kind of pressures did you feel in the course of coming up with Paul Kirk?

PATRICK: Well, I had lots of calls, you know, many that I initiated, some that were volunteered supporting either actual candidates or would-be candidates or rumored candidates. And I listened carefully to all of them. We did a certain amount of sort of standard vetting of, you know, background information and affiliations and financial information to make sure that the individuals would be consistent with and compliant with the Senate ethics rules.

But as I say, mainly, I was thinking about what is best for Massachusetts? Who"s going to deliver on constituent needs? Who"s going to pay attention to transportation and education reform, to health care reform? Who"s going to pay attention to climate change, and so forth? All of those issues. And it"s an unusual concentration of them that are important to Massachusetts as they are to the nation that"ll be voted on in the next--in the next few weeks.

And as I say, I think when you think about stewardship as being the main driving idea here, knowing that the people get to go in a special election and elect--and choose their own senator in January of next year, stewardship was really what I was looking for. And Paul Kirk is a perfect steward.

BARNICLE: You know, one last question on the Senate seat before I"d like to talk to you about health care a bit. Why Paul Kirk and not former governor Dukakis?

PATRICK: Well, like I said, we"ve got a lot of political talent. I love Mike Dukakis, and I think he brings a lot to the table. But when you think about all of the factors and contributions, and again, this point of stewardship, I think Paul Kirk is the right one. I prefer to talk about why him than why not--why not others.

You know, there is a--there is one thing I will say that is so--has been so humbling about this experience, and that is looking at this extraordinary field of candidates and appreciating their deep sense of service. And that was certainly true of Mike Dukakis, as it was of Paul Kirk, as it was of the other finalists.

BARNICLE: You know, the health care debate that"s going on now in the Senate and in the House in Washington that has consumed the nation, it"s consumed much of the country with all the town hall meetings this past summer--Massachusetts health care reform that was initiated several years ago, that joined former governor Mitt Romney and the late Senator Kennedy - how"s that working out?

PATRICK: That"s right.

BARNICLE: How"s that working out?

PATRICK: Well, look, it"s the--we are probably further along than any other state in the country in terms of health care reform. It is very much a public/private hybrid approach. Ninety-seven-plus percent of our residents are now insured with reliable, affordable health care. We"re tackling now the issues of cost. But the overall, the costs added to our state budget is about 1 percent, so it hasn"t been a budget buster. It"s a challenge during these economic times, as everything is. But it"s been enormously important to us, and I think it has offered a lot of lessons for the national debate, as well.

BARNICLE: But in terms of the cost, I mean, haven"t--haven"t you had to deal with eliminating some people from the health care provisions of the bill because of costs?

PATRICK: Well, that was a proposal, Mike, as you know in the budget. And as we negotiated--and the population that was suggested be taken out is a population of legal residents, tax-paying, working members of our community. We came up with a compromise so that we could continue to cover those individuals, who should be covered in any system that is about universal care. So I"m very proud of that.

But I will say this. You know, what we learned, maybe two lessons that are important for the national debate, if I have a minute just to make them, that came from Massachusetts. One is that here, we decided we had something better than or more than the usual two choices, which was between a perfect solution and no solution at all. And so we tried something.

And the other lesson of all this is that that broad coalition of providers and advocates and hospitals, doctors and insurers, and so forth, and policy makers that came together to invent this experiment have stayed together to make adjustments as we"ve gone along. And I think that will be necessary--both of those lessons will be important on the federal level, as well.

BARNICLE: You know, speaking about the national debate, race has been injected into several elements of it, the national debate, most recently by former president Carter. I have paid attention to your career. I watched you run for governor, and I think that you were an African-American when you ran for governor, as was Barack Obama when he ran for president.

(LAUGHTER)

PATRICK: Before. Yes, indeed.

BARNICLE: What"s your take on former president Carter"s take on it, on race in American politics with regard to the president? What"s your personal take on it?

PATRICK: Well, look, race is with us in this country. And I think we always struggle to strike a balance between acknowledging the extraordinary progress we"ve made in this country, much of it during my lifetime--I"m 53, really incredible transformations--and at the same time acknowledging that we still have work to do. That is a balance that we, I think, in this country struggle to acknowledge, that there are people who say nothing is happening, and there are other people who say it"s all over. We still have work to do.

I think that there are high and broad emotions on both sides of the health care debate, and I"m not at all convinced that all of that is driven or even much of it is driven by race. I think that it has to do with--a whole lot to do with the unknown, and that for many people, we"re talking about stepping out into new territory.

But that new territory is about the greater good, and I think that what has been great about this country at moments of our greatness has been when we have acknowledged the greater good and we have linked arms across all kinds of differences and stepped forward. And I think that"s what"s at stake right now with the health care debate, and I think we"ll get there.

BARNICLE: When you say the unknown, what do you mean by the unknown?

PATRICK: Well, I think an awful lot of people haven"t seen up close what we"re doing in Massachusetts, which is bringing both private sector and public sector together to try to address the question of the uninsured, and then the question of how we get system costs down and pass those savings on to premium payers. And those are enormous challenges facing individuals and companies and families all across the company (SIC), governments, too, for that matter.

And the notion of trying to solve it in a--in sort of a hybrid fashion by coming together is unfamiliar to a lot of people, but I think that is what the president and the Congress are working toward. I think it is a very, very worthy goal. And because we"ve tried it in Massachusetts and have had tremendous success with it, it"s not so scary for us, and I hope it won"t be in the end for the American people.

BARNICLE: One last question. On the coming together thing, we keep hearing every time something occurs--the election of Barack Obama, your election, your campaign for reelection--that when race is discussed, everybody says, you know, Well, it"s going to be nice because now we"re finally going to have a good national conversation about race. I don"t think we"ve ever had one. Do you? Do you think we"ve ever?

PATRICK: Well, not really. Not really. I mean, in some ways, we--you know, we"re hungry for it, and in other ways, we"re not entirely ready for it. But it"ll come. I think the most important thing is to acknowledge that race is with us, but it doesn"t explain everything that goes wrong in my life, private or political, or in the lives of other people of color. And people of color know that, by the way, and I think most of the general population does, as well.

BARNICLE: Governor Deval Patrick, thanks very much for your time. We appreciate it. Coming up...

PATRICK: You bet. Good to be with you, Mike. Thank you.

BARNICLE: Coming up: President Obama says he wants a new era of engagement with the world. Will the world engage with him?

You"re watching HARDBALL, only on MSNBC.

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