Hearing of the Senate Committe on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions - Empowering Workers to Rebuild America's Economy and Longer- Term Competitiveness: Green Skills Training for Workers

CHAIRED BY: SENATOR PATTY MURRAY (D-WA)WITNESSES PANEL I: HILDA SOLIS, SECRETARY OF LABOR; PANEL II: LEE D. LAMBERT, PRESIDENT, SHORELINE COMMUNITY COLLEGE; PHILLIP C.L. LOU, FORMER STUDENT IN THE SHORELINE COMMUNITY COLLEGE SOLAR DESIGN AND INSTALLATION PROGRAM; DEAN ALLEN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, MCKINSTRY COMPANY; MARK H. AYERS, PRESIDENT, BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION TRADES DEPARTMENT, AFL-CIO; JOAN EVANS, DIRECTOR, WYOMING DEPARTMENT OF WORK FORCE SERVICES

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SEN. MURRAY: This hearing of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee will come to order. I am pleased to be chairing a hearing on this topic, so important to our nation's competitiveness and long-term economic strength to ensure that our American workers have the skills to succeed in this new, green economy. First of all, I want to send my warmest wishes to our chairman, Senator Kennedy, who continues to be a great champion for America's workers. I also want to thank Senator Enzi, our ranking member, and Senator Isakson, who I believe will be here, as he is our ranking member on our subcommittee. Both of them have been very strong partners in making sure that our workers have the skills to compete in a global work force.

I also want to welcome our newly confirmed Labor Secretary, Secretary Solis, to the Hill today. I believe this is your first hearing, welcome. While it is your first hearing, we have had a lot of conversations already about the challenges facing our work force as we work to pull ourselves out of this economic recession. So I look forward to hearing from you and working with you to help ensure a strong work force for America.

I also look forward to hearing our second panel of witnesses who are here with us today. We have several experts from the State of Washington, Dean Allen, who is the CEO of McKinstry Company. It's a company who has been on the cutting edge of green building industry; Lee Lambert, who is the President of Shoreline Community College; and Mr. Phil Lou whose green training at Shoreline has opened up a new career of opportunities for him. I must tell you, I'm thrilled to have so many Shoreline Community College folks represented here. I worked there in my earlier career, and I know it's a great school, and I know they're committed to preparing students to succeed in the work world. I want to thank all of you for traveling so far to be here as witnesses for our committee today.

As we look forward to Earth Day, it's appropriate that we're here today to talk about how we can retool our work force for the green economy. It's going to take a skilled, green work force to free our nation from dependence on foreign oil and build a stronger and more sustainable economic future. So from solar panel installation to green building to retrofitting our homes and offices, the jobs of tomorrow start with increased training efforts today. Not only will it help us all to be more energy efficient, it can help our communities and our working families rebuild for a stronger and more sustainable economic future.

The debate about what exactly constitutes green energy is complex. We'll look to our colleagues on the Committees on Energy and Natural Resources and Environment and Public Works as well as the Obama administration to help inform us about the future of America's energy and environmental policies. Leaders like Senator Sanders, who will be with us shortly, who is the Chairman of the new Subcommittee on Green Jobs in the New Economy can help all of us better understand how federal policy can move our nation towards a sustainable energy future that will create new, green collared jobs. America's working families deserve nothing less than a strong and effective partnership among their elected representatives to achieve this goal. Together, with today's efforts to examine how we can best provide workers the skills to thrive in green industries, we can begin to build a stronger and more sustainable economic future.

So what exactly is a green job? While there isn't a hard and fast definition, these jobs tend to provide products and services that promote renewable energy resources, reduce pollution, and conserve and natural resources in any industry. We also know that they are not confined to the skilled trades or professional occupations. Like any in demand sector, they're cross cutting and able to reach workers of all ages and skill levels. For some, going green at work means applying the skills they already have to a new, more sustainable context, like the construction workers who lend their talent to building energy efficient structures. For others, it means retraining for a new career or upgrading their existing skills. And that's where we can be most helpful.

When Congress passed the Work force Investment Act in 1998, we intended for it support the needs of workers, job seekers, and the businesses that grow our economy. Since the authorization expired almost six years ago, those of us who believe in this legislation's goals have called for both its modernization and renewal. Many of us on this committee have kept up the drum beat for reauthorization. Senator Enzi, as we well know, takes every opportunity to voice his support for reauthorization. I'm pretty sure he'll do that again today, and I appreciate all of his efforts. And we have let Secretary Solis and others in the administration know of our commitment to moving a bill forward this year.

Together with Senator Kennedy and Senator Isakson, we began the process by hosting a number of listening sessions with everyone from educators and business leaders to work force and economic development experts, organized labor, and many others. We've heard from organizations like Green for All about how those opportunities can help lift Americans out of poverty. And the vice president's Middle Class Task Force has focused on how green jobs can help strengthen and expand the middle class and provide opportunities for those who may not know that it was in their reach. We have great opportunities for improving this system to make it work for both businesses and workers and ensuring our ability to adapt to a changing and greening economy.

But going green will require us to get serious about worker training. And with record investments in creating green jobs in the Economic Recovery Act, now is the time to ramp up our efforts. That law invested billions of dollars in job creation with a focus on energy efficiency and sustainability, greener infrastructure development, and environmentally sound public works. And at the same time, we also invested in America's workers and their ability to secure those jobs and move up a career ladder. We provided $4.2 billion for job training and placement services.

And consistent with the Green Jobs Act, we directed $500 million of those funds specifically for preparing workers for green economy jobs.

We requested that Job Corps participants learn about green construction practices by directing funding to teach students to retrofit the very centers they live and learn in. And we know that manufacturing and construction sectors have taken some of the hardest hits in this economic downturn. So we directed the Department of Labor to emphasize green skills development in dislocation worker programs under WIA. So I look forward to hearing from Secretary Solis about how those funds are being distributed and about her vision for incorporating green skills into a long-term plan for economic growth and strength. With that, I will turn it over to our ranking Republican, Senator Enzi, and thank you so much for your help in putting this committee together today.

SEN. MICHAEL ENZI (R-WY): Thank you, Madam Chairman. I thank you for holding this hearing to discuss the issue of green skills training for workers. And I want to welcome the secretary for her first appearance before the HELP Committee since her confirmation. I'm also pleased that we'll be joined on the second panel by Joan Evans, the Director of the Wyoming Department of Work force Services. Because Wyoming has substantial energy production, I believe that Director Evans will bring an important perspective to this discussion, and I look forward to introducing her at the appropriate time. I'm also pleased that we have the representation of community colleges here. Wyoming thrives on community colleges, and I've noticed that they are able to turn on a dime to meet new needs and do new training.

President Obama has made green jobs a central part of his plan to rebuild the nation's economy. He stated, on a number of occasions, about the need to transition to a clean energy economy. I support the president's goal of increasing our clean energy production, and I hope the president understands that we need an inclusive strategy when it comes to addressing our serious energy challenges.

My home state of Wyoming is at the forefront of our nation's energy efforts, as we have an abundance of energy resources. We provide the nation with the coal that generates the electricity for more than half of our nation's homes and businesses. For this reason, we must recognize the critical role that coal plays and will continue to play in our nation's economic stability and energy security. Southeast Wyoming is one of the best places in the nation for wind energy development. And Wyoming has some of the best potential for solar energy development as well.

However, today we're not focusing on energy policy. Instead, we're talking about the importance of having a skilled work force and making sure that we have the education and training programs necessary to meet the skill demands of the 21st century jobs, including green jobs. The strength of our current work force system is that it is demand driven. We need to consider whether we are creating a demand for green jobs or if we are responding to a true market demand for more workers to fill green jobs. The education and skills training for green jobs must be connected to the larger work force system so that we are not duplicating the efforts of the current Work force Investment Act system -- had to get that in. (Laughing.) We cannot afford to create a parallel system of job training and put additional silos to our work force system.

The Stimulus Bill included $500 million for jobs, training projects that prepare workers for careers in energy efficiency and renewable energy. I encourage the Department of Labor to coordinate with the other federal agencies targeted for stimulus funding to address green jobs. Coordination is particularly critical when other agencies such as the Department of Energy, the Department of Transportation, Department of the Interior, and the Environmental Protection Agency have little connection to the work force system in states and communities across the country.

As we discuss green jobs, it's also important to examine whether green jobs are new occupations or whether green jobs are existing jobs that require a new layering of green skills. For many occupations, training workers for green jobs can be as straightforward as training for the jobs in the existing career sector without any adjustment or with slight modification to incorporate specific knowledge and skills for the green aspects of the job. While it may be appropriate to do the extra work to help bring these additional skills needed to the work in a green related field, we should focus on making sure that we're providing workers with the core knowledge and skills they need to be successful in the 21st century workplace and the global economy.

While I believe it's important to understand the skills needed for workers to be successful in green industries, I think we should be addressing the work force development system overall by reauthorizing the Work force Investment Act. I look forward to working with Secretary Solis and my Senate colleagues this year to renew and improve this important act. We've come close before; we need to get it done. I look forward to hearing what the witnesses have to say today. Thank you again for taking the time to share your views about green jobs and skills needed as we address these emerging issues. Thank you, Madam Chairman.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you very much, Senator Enzi. We have several members who would like to make an opening statement. We'll turn to each one of them. Senator Brown.

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D-OH): Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to Secretary Solis, nice to see you again. When we worked together in the House, clean energy jobs was a policy idea. Now it's a reality, and your vision and leadership have contributed, in no small measure, to that. Thank you for that.

I'm particularly interested in the thoughts of the secretary and the panel on the specific industries in which you all envision creating these clean energy jobs and what regions of the country you see these jobs' programs having the greatest impact. I've been holding, since I took office 20 some months ago, roundtables throughout Ohio. I've held about 140 roundtables and going to each of Ohio's 88 counties listening to people talk about how we get an economy that's been in recession longer than the national recession back on track.

One of the central messages I hear from dislocated manufacturing workers is the need to update their skills to get jobs in emerging clean energy technology in those sectors of the economy. They rightly perceive these sectors as a major force in economic recovery, both in their communities and across our country. Two weeks ago, I hosted a conference in Washington for Ohio's college presidents. About 50 of them attended. Senator Murray, in fact, was our keynote speaker, and she talked very persuasively about work force policy.

One of the major topics that surfaced and resurfaced throughout this conference was actually a question: how do we better coordinate between and among institutions of higher education and sectors of our economy where there is unmet demand for workers? The Clean Energy Jobs Initiative is key to that effort. Community colleges across the country are reporting a surge of unemployed workers, as we know, enrolling in courses that offer training for clean energy jobs. At the Upper Valley Joint Vocational School in Piqua, Ohio in Southwestern Ohio, students are learning how to install solar panels, repair and manufacture wind turbines, produce biofuels, do other work related to renewable energy. With Recovery Bill funds, they could support even more students and manufacturers in Ohio and Pennsylvania and North Carolina and all our states.

Clean energy jobs also include core manufacturing and services like electricians and welders and pipe fitters, workers who can transfer their skills from other industries to new, greener technology. There's no doubt that these clean energy jobs, along with jobs in other emerging industries, can transform our economy. Aligning our educational system to the need for new skills training will go a long way toward turning the promise of green and other new manufacturing jobs into a reality of a more robust U.S. economy.

We can't rely on educational strategies alone to get there. We should make the R&D Tax Credit permanent and pursue trade policies that are actually aligned with our trade goals. Making the tax credit permanent is a straightforward task. Modifying our trade policy, in which Secretary Solis was a leader when she was in the House of Representatives, should also be a straightforward task but is encumbered by ideological battles too often wrapped misleading rhetoric of accusations of protectionism and those kinds of things. Both tasks are essential.

And lastly, Madam Chair, Oberlin College, 15 miles or so from my home, has the largest building on any college campus in America fully powered by solar energy. That's the good news. The bad news is Oberlin, some four or five years ago, bought all its solar panels in Germany and Japan simply because we didn't make enough in this country.

In Germany, employment in clean energy reached a quarter million in 2006. It's estimated to reach a half million by 2020. There's no reason the workers in Ohio and Washington and Oregon and Pennsylvania and North Carolina can't do these jobs and do them as well or better than German workers have. We're starting to see that already in Toledo, nearby Toledo, known for decades as "The Glass City," on of the major glass manufacturers in the country.

First Solar produces more thin film solar panels than any other facility in the country. Another company, Zunlight (ph), started by a Chinese immigrant, has gone from 30 employees to 80 employees and will soon expand to double that number as they put another production line on their plant in Northwest Ohio. We know we can do this; it's a question of government working with work force investment groups, working with community colleges, working with labor to do this right. Thank you, Madam Chair.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you. Senator Casey.

SEN. ROBERT CASEY (D-PA): Thank you so much. I want to commend Senator Murray for bringing us together today and for her work in this whole area of inquiry that we're examining today, and I want to thank the secretary for being here. We want to welcome you back to Capitol Hill. You've been here as a member of Congress but also now in your new capacity of Secretary of Labor. We're grateful for your presence here and the testimony you'll bring but also for, in a larger sense, for your service, your continuing public service.

I'll submit a longer statement for the record, but there are a few issues we could be examining that are more important than this. The potential in my home state of Pennsylvania to create and to sustain the creation over time of green jobs is enormous. And I would reiterate what Senator Brown said, tremendous potential here for so many places in the country. And it's important that we get the strategy right so we can take full advantage of that capacity and that potential. But we're grateful for your service, and we look forward to talking to you about these issues today. Thank you.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you. Senator Hagan.

SEN. KAY HAGAN (D-NC): Thank you, Madam Chairman. And Secretary Solis, I also wanted to welcome you. North Carolina is about the fifth largest state in unemployment right now. We are approaching close to 5,000 people unemployed. And I know that we have a wonderful number of people who could work in green industry. And what's so good about those jobs is those jobs will not be outsourced. We do need to, as Senator Brown said, be making those solar panels and batteries and wind turbines in our country.

During this recess, I was at Appalachian State University in Boone, North Carolina, and the students are so excited. They're doing a number of things using wind power. They've got a car where they're testing the emissions of the fuel, whether it's canola oil, poultry renderings, all sorts of different types of fuels, and they're actually studying the emissions from that. So I think the capability is huge, and we also have a large biotechnology sector in North Carolina focused on the biofuels. So anything that we can do to promote green industry, jobs, jobs, jobs, is what we need to be doing at this point in time. So I look forward to your testimony in helping move this country forward in green jobs. Thank you.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you. Senator Merkley.

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): Thank you very much, Madam Chair. And welcome, Madam Secretary. It's a delight to have you with us and to have your emphasis on creating jobs for working families. Oregon's unemployment is now 12.1 percent. It has been exceeded only once in 1982. We are focused, absolutely, on how we can create a partnership between working on the environmental issues and creating jobs for our working families.

There's many exciting things going on in Oregon, as there are in the other states. SolarWorld has opened a plant that will be one of the largest producers of solar panels in the nation. SeQuential Biofuels has opened a new plant, ramping up from a million gallons to 5 million gallons. We have traditional manufacturers working on producing devices to help create wave energy, which is a real potential yet to be exploited, so on and so forth.

We have enormous opportunity. Just an hour ago, I was meeting with a Danish member of Parliament, Sven Auken, who is really a driver in ending Danish energy dependence and their susceptibility to oil shocks and creating a surplus and turning those oil shocks to Denmark's advantage. They profit when the costs -- price of oil goes up. And he wanted to emphasize the point that as they created a surplus of energy, they delinked energy from the economy. That is, their economy grew enormously while consuming less energy and in the course created millions of jobs within their nation. So we can certainly do the same. Thank you for coming.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you very much. Senator Enzi asked to give you his apologies. He's going back and forth between the Finance Committee, but he will return shortly. And we do have your written statement. But Secretary Solis, again, welcome to the committee, and we look forward to your testimony.

MS. HILDA SOLIS: Thank you, Madam Chair, and to Ranking Member Enzi and to the members of this committee. I am very pleased to be here. This is my first, official hearing. As you know, the last time I was here was during the confirmation. But I'm pleased to be the 25th Labor Secretary and proud author, along with my other colleagues, of the Green Jobs Act. As a member of Congress, we worked for many years on passing that legislation. So as you can tell, I'm very delighted to be here to be able to talk about this particular topic, something that we hold very close to our hearts, those of us who worked on this. And I know Senator Sanders was a part of that initiative as well on the Senate side, so I want to thank him publically.

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss the role of green jobs skills training for workers in the larger context of rebuilding America's economy and promoting long-term competitiveness. It's no secret that our economy is in dire straits, and American's are struggling. Earlier this month, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that the national unemployment rate reached 8.5 percent, the highest in 26 years. In many states, the situation is even more severe. In March, the unemployment rate was 9.2 percent in Washington State, 11.2 percent in California, and 12.1 percent, as Senator Merkley mentioned. In my own hometown in California, the City of El Monte, the unemployment rate is 13.9 percent.

Meanwhile, the rates of joblessness among minorities is even higher. Latinos are unemployed at a rate of 11.4 percent, and African-Americans are unemployed at a rate of 13.3 percent. When you talk about our young people, our youth, teens are also experiencing high levels of unemployment, 21.7 percent. Our nation has lost 5 million jobs since the recession began two years ago, December 2007. The number of long-term unemployed rose to 3.2 million over the month of March and has increased by 1.9 million since the start of this recession. Investing in our nation's work force and creating a positive environment for new jobs has to be a critical component of our efforts to re-start and re-jump our economy.

You have my full written statement before you, so I won't read it all, but I'll just hit some high points that I think I would like to stress. And first, green jobs, as you know, will play and important role in our economic recovery. The promise of green jobs is not only to help restart the economy and put Americans back to work, but also help America become more energy independent. Investing in our nation's clean energy future will secure America's energy supply and at the same time promote economic stability and an advancement for all of our communities.

Many green jobs are in the construction and trades, and these jobs will tend to pay more than above average salaries. The Occupational Employment and Wage estimates indicate that construction and extraction operations pay a median hourly rate of $17.57 compared to $15.10. We can expect that many of these green jobs will pay 10 to 20 percent better than other jobs. And many will be union jobs that provide economic security for the middle class families while at the same time reducing our nation's energy dependence. Furthermore, these are also jobs that traditionally cannot be outsourced, as we stated by some of the members on the panel.

This brings me to a second point. We're already making investments towards greening our economy and preparing our work force for the 21st century. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, signed by President Obama on February 17, 2009, is the most significant single investment our nation has ever made to ensure our future economic success.

For its part, the Department of Labor's Employment and Training Administration Program, ETA, has already made available $3.47 billion in Recovery Act funds to support work force investment activities such as retraining dislocated workers, summer employment for youth, community service employment for low income seniors.

We're also developing grant solicitations for $500 million for high growth job training projects including green jobs. These projects will train workers for careers in energy efficiency and renewable energy industries so that a qualified American work force is ready to meet the needs of our country's expanding green industries. Unemployment data show that young people, people with disabilities, African-Americans, and Hispanics are facing unemployment rates in double digits. Green jobs, in my opinion, can provide an opportunity to rebuild our communities in a more equitable and fair manner, inclusive of all Americans regardless of their socioeconomic background.

In order to realize this opportunity, however, we are prioritizing access and inclusion in these programs for low income workers, for unemployed youth and adults, for high school dropouts, or for other underserved sectors of the work force within high poverty areas. Included in this is a component to help provide more support for women, because as you know, women also are faced with a hardship at this particular time. These are some of the communities that are hardest hit by the recession, and they too will have an opportunity to benefit from the growth in the green jobs in our economic recovery.

The Department of Labor is also promoting green jobs across all the Work force Investment Programs. We have issued guidance to states to help implement the Recovery Act funded job training provisions, noting that the energy efficiency and renewable energy industries offers workers new opportunities that may require additional training and certification. The Department of Labor has encouraged states to expand existing training programs such as registered apprenticeships that have the potential to prepare workers for careers in renewable energy and in other green jobs.

Other examples of how we're working to leverage our resources responsibly within the DOL programs to promote green jobs include the following. The Department of Labor Veterans Employment and Training and Service Program, the VETS Program, will soon release a solicitation for grant application to promote green jobs trainings for veterans. The Bureau of Labor Standards is currently developing approaches to measure what green jobs are and where that growth will occur.

So there will be surveys that will be taken in different workplace industries where green activity is expected to occur. Future construction and repair of Job Corps facilities will also be incorporated in green technologies. Job Corps will also develop and implement green job training in their curricula for youth to also be able to learn from these new employment opportunities. And furthermore, I'm very interested in greening the nation's work force system -- -- that's the entire WIA system -- to ensure that the system and its partners are fully connected and committed to sustaining the green economy both in current jobs and emerging occupations.

And then finally, I'd like to highlight how our green jobs work force training efforts will be even more effective in aiding our global economic recovery if we work together with our partners with the U.S. government and around the world. Two weeks ago, I had the privilege of attending my first meeting of the G8 Summit with labor ministers. At that meeting, we focused on the human dimension of this economic global crisis. In each plenary session and bilateral meeting, my fellow labor ministers raised the issue of green jobs. There were three points that were very clear to me in their conversations. We must first work globally to address the economic crisis. Green jobs are an important component of this global economic recovery. And the world is definitely looking to the United States for its leadership.

My colleagues in the Cabinet and I recognize that our investments can't be done in a vacuum. The Department of Labor and other federal agencies have already begun to coordinate our work to strategically implement programs that ensure the connection between investments and infrastructure, research and development, to job training and worker placement. For example, the Department of Energy, specifically the Department of Labor is working with them to ensure that workers who are hired in new jobs, in particular weatherization, receive prior training. It's imperative that these be good paying jobs and there be some form of standardization for certificates. HUD, another agency that my staff has been working with lately regarding greening of public housing to promote training and hiring of unemployed residents who are actually in those facilities.

I believe there are still many more linkages to be made between green jobs and the recovery of communities hit the hardest by this economic downturn. For example, the Department of Labor is also playing a vital role in supporting the economic recovery of communities that depend on car manufacturers and related industries. Many of these communities are passionate about green jobs being a part of their future economic success, and the department will work hard to ensure that not only they survive but that those communities also thrive in this recovery. And I'm proud to be a member of Vice President Biden's Middle Class Task Force. And at a recent meeting in Philadelphia, and I quote, he said, "We'll measure our success whether it's four years or eight years by one thing: if we can raise the standard of living for middle class people". I couldn't agree more.

While we deal in facts and figures and charts, we must also remember the numbers behind the economic downturn and the economic recovery and that is the faces of our community, our constituents, the people that we represent. I believe that green jobs if implemented correctly can create an opportunity to lift all American's boats, to regain economic security and can help us green our economy and can help us assert our leadership in the global economy.

Madame Chair and members I thank you for the opportunity to come forward and talk to you about this very important discussion. Thank you.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you very much Secretary Solis. Appreciate all your comments.

You know, the concept of green jobs is really popular. We hear it all the time. But many of our work force practitioners find it really confusing and they're not exactly sure what a green job really is. And while they understand how to help individuals get the training they need, they may not understand the science of the politics or policy behind the green movement and I wanted to ask you what kind of technical assistance is the Department of Labor going to provide to the staff of our work force boards and our one stop centers and training providers to help them better serve workers in their green economy with their WIA funding.

SEC. SOLIS: Madame Chair, that's a great question. What we have already begun to do as I said in my testimony is that while we were providing recovery act money formula funding to the different states, we had already provided outlines and guidance to the different states that are recipients of this funds, to look at how they can integrate green jobs.

And that is partnering with different organizations that may be perhaps were not included in the past, and that is I think something that we are going to have to work on. Making sure that for example we have business at the table, that we have apprenticeship programs at the table, that we have different industries, small businesses that might be interested in beginning a whole new capital outlaid program to begin to manufacture solar panels or to work and partner with vocational education schools.

And I just want to give you if I could a brief example of what I've already seen happening that is taking place across the country. In one school district, LA Unified, they have an adult program. Most of their money comes through the federal government and the state government. But they have partnered with the IDEW an apprenticeship program but also partnered with an outside business organization. There is the need for people to be trained to provide for the installation but also the manufacturing of solar panels.

These two partners came together, they were able to leverage school district money, private funding, and also the assistance and technical help from the IBEW has a curriculum in place already. That the instructor was paid through however by the small business. So in fact this compilation of coming together in that manner and being able to train and help motivate people who may be for the first time maybe exposed to a new career opportunity I think it a really, really important to underscore.

It isn't just people that are say for example in the electrical industry or plumbers or construction folks, but it can also be individuals who will for the first time be exposed to a different career path that may provide them more sustainability in years out. And I think that's the beauty of being able to work within the system of WIA, to make sure that we not only support the workers, the workers are very important, to make sure their skills training is available, but the businesses also have an opportunity to expand.

One of the points I'd like to make is that in the WIA Program itself and as we talk about reauthorizing the legislation, I think it's very important to make sure that we include in the WIA the one stop efforts. All opportunities that we can through Department of Commerce or the Small Business Administration to help couple those dollars that are going to need to be drawn down and leveraged so these small businesses and medium sized businesses can have the capital thus being able to then hire individuals and begin the production of whatever it might be, wind power, solar power, biofuels or what have you.

But that's kind of my thought process in how we're going to go about determining how we begin this process.

SEN. MURRAY: All right. And that's WIA. What about the grant recipients of the Competitive Grant Program under the Economy Recovery Act?

SEC. SOLIS: I am making it very clear to our regional offices across the country that we will be in a position to provide technical assistance to different organizations that want to come into contact with our office. I think we are taking a very pro active approach and also touching base with those existing programs that are already partners of the WIA Program, but in fact having to actually go even farther because as I said earlier, there's a lot of other stakeholders that haven't been at the table. And we want to do due diligence to make sure that we attract as many of those groups whether they're veterans, whether they're disabled, whether they are individuals who have been dislocated for two years or more, we want to make sure that our outreach is inclusive and as comprehensive as possible.

So there will be times and opportunities to have conferences, partnering with other private sector groups to make sure that the WIA and the one stops are all giving the same information out. And in different languages.

SEN. MURRAY: Okay. Are you reaching out specifically to businesses to help them understand the green jobs and help them with the skilled workforce there?

SEC. SOLIS: We do have funding available to provide technical assistance so I plan on making that a big part of our agenda.

SEN. MURRAY: Okay. Thank you. Senator Casey?

SEN. ROBERT CASEY, JR. (D-PA): Thank you Senator Murray.

Madame Secretary, I want to thank you again for your leadership on these issues. One of the things that Senator Murray started with was talking about the definitions. One, because I think there's a lot of language that we're using in the discourse in Washington and across the country, but I wanted to get a sense, I was provided with one basic definition of green jobs and I want to make sure that we're on the same page. Here's what this definition says: green jobs provide quote, "products and services that promote renewable energy sources, that's one, reduce pollution, conserve energy, and natural resources in any industry". That kind of a generally good definition what we're talking about?

SEC. SOLIS: Senator, yes it is. It's very broad and it was done deliberately because we are in fact going to be researching the different components that can be a part of this so you could conceivably have a job retrofitting a house, a construction worker, but because now they're using not just equipment but they're placing products that are going to save energy costs of electricity bill or any kind of power that is used in that household, those jobs will require a different set of training skills and obviously would be a part of the check off list in terms of the box that says yes, this is an applicable field that could be considered green.

SEN. CASEY: I was glad that in your testimony you cited as we've seen before but it bears repeating is the hourly rate differentials that the projection of green jobs paying 10 to 20 percent higher, very important. I think unless people have a sense of the economic benefit of this, it might not sound as compelling and I'm glad you've pointed that out.

One thing I wanted to do from a very broad kind of overview perspective is ask you, you highlighted as I'm glad you did the Recovery Bill, the enormous benefits across the board, especially with regard to this topic green jobs. But in terms, as you look at the next year or two of the administration, obviously the Recovery Bill is a major part of the strategy of not just getting the economy to recovery but also to put in place strategies for the longer term. How do you see the, when you review or when you highlight the Recovery Bill, the budget, and any other strategy, how do you see that playing out as a strategy? In other words, what are the basic building blocks for a green job strategy in terms of what the administration hopes to do?

SEC. SOLIS: Well Senator I can talk about my agency and what our intention will be. And Senator Murray knows this very well that we haven't reauthorized the WIA Program --

SEN. CASEY: Right.

SEC. SOLIS: -- in several years. So that will be one of our, I think, one of our most important structural changes that can be made to help sustain this growth in the job economy and green jobs. So I definitely see our working with this committee in helping to make those structural changes so that they're permanent and that people from the get go know that these are the things that we're going to be looking at in terms of providing assistance from the federal government.

And we don't want jobs that don't go anywhere, we want jobs to have a career path. I think that's very important so at any one point in time someone could come in from maybe just a GED background, but you never know, may eventually go up to a community college, and who knows may become their own small business owner and may require additional assistance.

So we want to have a seamless system that allows people to come in and out as necessary. Not everyone is going to want to spend maybe four years in a program. Some may not have that luxury and I think that we need to be responsive and flexible to that. So I intend on working as best I can with our formula funding, the WIA money as well, to help provide those structural incentives and guidance to the states so that they know that next time around after this money is gone from the Recovery Package that we're still going to continue on with this agenda.

SEN. CASEY: Well we look forward to working with you on the changes that we need to make to the Workforce Investment Act and it's going to have a tremendous impact on our state. I may leave this for the second round but I wanted to ask you about weatherization and the strategy that the Recovery Act as well as other programs are putting in place for that but I'll, I've got about ten seconds left, we'll wait until the next but if we can highlight that a little later that would be helpful for the perspective in our state of Pennsylvania. Thank you.

MS. SILOS: Thank you.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you. We'll make sure we have a chance to get back to you on that Senator Casey. Senator Hagan?

SEN. KAY HAGAN (D-NC): Thank you Madame Chairman. This question might address some of those issues too but Secretary Solis I want to talk about how we can make sure that community colleges are playing a key role in preparing workers for these new green jobs. In my state, North Carolina has 58 community colleges based across the state and they're all integrated in their communities. And these institutions have been so beneficial for so many people getting retrained in different jobs within the work force.

And I think you'd agree that we want to continue to bolster these existing institutions. But my concern is that new technologies and new jobs are being created at such a fast pace that we might end up facing a shortage of instructors who are qualified to teach these skills.

And I'd like to ensure that all of our community colleges are equipped to teach the new skills in electricity and manufacturing, heating and cooling, automotive, agriculture, construction, and the other green industry jobs that will be tied to this area.

And my questions are how can we best ensure that we're offering the training for such a diverse job of industries and that training for these programs is available and as many areas as possible and that the skills taught are the most applicable and then the most up to date skills. And the other part of that is what other obstacles do you think that community colleges might face and how can we overcome those obstacles?

MS. SOLIN: Thank you, Senator Hagan. Very good questions.

Community colleges play a very, very significant role in the WIA Program now and they will continue to have I believe a major role as we role out the green jobs programs and the funding for that. We've had several conversations already with many providers, some of whom are from the community colleges and many I think are in a better position than most of the other educational institutions to be able to rapidly respond to changes in curriculum that might be needed. There also is I think an effort to try to get individuals from business organizations who can actually come on campus and provide the instruction that's needed. That will also cause some reforms that community colleges will have to make because typically some classes aren't always offered late evening or Saturdays and Sundays. Keep in mind there are different dynamics that are going on and we have to have our educational systems that want to be a part of this to be as flexible as possible.

So that might be something down the road that has to be looked at, but I truly believe that there will be opportunities for community colleges along with other partners in the community to be able to really reach out and bring not just exclusively just the dislocated workers but people who have traditionally not even thought about maybe upgrading their skills.

And I'm thinking also about our returning young vets that for the most part could really benefit from a community college experience. It might require them to get into say a green job program that might be short term but in the end, they may be exposed to some other subject there and may end up taking on more course work.

I could see so many advantages occurring for the community colleges. I know they're overwhelmed right now, there have been a lot of layoffs throughout our different states. In the state of California, we're faced with the same problem, but I think it's going to require the community colleges to really figure out that maybe they have to also prioritize where it is they want to be most effective.

And I know they're goal overall as a former trustee for a college, you try to meet all the community needs. Well in this day and age when we have limited dollars, they're going to have to work very closely in partnership with other stakeholders to really focus and maybe share what group can do a better job in training, what group may do a better job in case work or case management so to speak, there may even be a need to collaborate with local head start programs to allow for women for example to take the courses and have a place to send their children during the time that they're being instructed or getting their education.

So it's going to create I think a synergy, a collaboration, and we are trying our best through the Department of Labor to make sure that we get that information out, that those are the kinds of things that we want to look for that I certainly would want to rate very high. And when it comes to regional programs, we know that your state and others and Oregon are faced with just tremendous hardships right now.

So we're also thinking about maybe changing the way we deal with for example trade adjustment assistance monies and that's a discussion we can have later on. But how we can expand that to provide assistance for people who have been dislocated and it's now affecting an entire region.

SEN. HAGAN: Thank you. I think the key is to be sure we have the qualified people doing the training and the instruction of these new jobs and to be sure that there are funds available to hire these instructors and to train them, too.

Thank you Madame Chairman.

SEC. SOLIS: Thank you.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you. Senator Merkley.

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): Thank you Madame Chair and thank you Secretary for your testimony.

Would the frame work for these jobs as you noted is to produce clean energy, to change the energy formula in terms of our dependence on foreign oil. Do you have any sense of if we continue this level of effort, what kind of impact we make on our energy dependence over the next ten years?

SEC. SOLIS: I don't have any accurate data to share with you, I mean, that's what I will tell you is that in terms of the Department of Labor, what we see happening and our priority is to put people to work.

So I do believe there will be that opportunity to do that. In doing that in these particular occupations, there will be an end result, and hopefully that end result will be that we will lower our carbon footprint, that we will create opportunities to have electric vehicles or different types of fuels that will provide the necessary input so that we can have more efficient automobiles or transportation modes that I think all of us in the long run will benefit from. That's anecdotal but that's the direction I think that we are going to be moving in.

And we're really also looking at having our communities take more ownership in their household. So if we retrofit homes, whether it's public housing or whether it's just average Joe or Mary, I believe in the long run they will also reduce their carbon dependency, and we'll bring down the cost of electricity, we'll be able to show that there are conservation methods and techniques that can be trained and learned that will help our households, that will help our schools, that will help I think our entire possibly even federal government. But that's down the line.

SEN. MERKLEY: Well and one of the things that I'm very interested in over the course of this year and the years to come is an intense discussion over creating a frame work, a frame work into which our efforting green jobs exists so that we have a vision of energy independence, we have a vision of the type of reductions in our footprint that you referred that we have a goal for our production of renewable energy. I'm certainly hopeful we can reach the 25 percent by 2025.

But that we can incorporate these into a national plan, a national framework so we'll kind of have a path that we can judge our success by and sustain citizen support for our investment in green jobs. And I know it's a broad discussion that involves many departments of the government and certainly dialogue with the Hill here but I certainly look forward to that conversation between this committee and the energy committee and the environment committee and the various departments.

You have noted that the role of community colleges and the fact that many of these jobs are construction jobs that will produce higher wages. I also appreciated your reference to the fact that the department will include features prioritize access inclusion for low income workers, unemployed youth and adults, high school dropouts and underserved sectors of the workforce. I know I have gotten some feedback from some of the more challenged communities in my state as saying is this movement going to bypass them. Would you like to expand on some of those features and how you hope to address, connect?

SEC. SOLIS: Yes, thank you Senator, and as I mentioned earlier, our attempt now even in putting our solicitation letters out for grants is including language where for example in the youth build programs, we're asking for those individuals who would like to compete for those grants to include components of green jobs, green job training. That is in my opinion a must.

And also with the job corps programs where as you know those are residential programs and you have at risk typically at risk students that participate in those programs. We are also looking to provide guidance so that any reconstruction of those facilities because that's ongoing all the time is that there is a component available to allow for training of those job corps recipients but also curricula because they are also a provision for job corps where they have to get some type of instruction. That is something that we also want to make clear, that that has to be a part of the initial grant.

So we're doing what we can, I'm very excited that the summer youth program in fact also has received some guidance that we are not mincing words here. We want to be very clear that we want to have partnerships established right now, ready to go, and I think some of them are ready. Certainly in parts of Los Angeles that I'm familiar with, to see that these young people in summer youth employment programs also have an opportunity to be exposed and get some skills in the green industry.

SEN. MERKLEY: Thank you very much.

SEN. MURRAY: Senator Sanders.

SEN. BERNARD SANDERS (I-VT): Thank you Madame Chairman. Madame Secretary, thank you for being here and it sounds like you're hitting the ground running which is what we need. I think you and I agree that we are on the cusp of a revolution in energy in this country, but we have the potential to create millions of good paying jobs in energy efficiency, making our homes, our offices, our factories more energy efficient and also moving forward in sustainable energy.

Let me just ask you a couple of questions if I can. With the $500 million made available through the Economy Recover Package for green jobs training, will you and your staff at the Department of Labor use the green jobs act criteria as guidance for distribution of those funds, including the requirements that grantees include equal participation from industry and labor organizations?

SEC. SOLIS: Senator Sanders, I think you and I can agree that we spent numerous hours, numerous time and months on getting legislation for green jobs finally enacted. Now we have an opportunity to see it implemented and yes, most of what you've asked, we are trying to make sure that all of that is included in our implementation through the Department of Labor.

SEN. SANDERS: Okay. We think that labor organizations who have a lot of skill at this. I know the IBEW, many other organizations have hands on, have a history of working with young people in teaching them the skills that they will require, and we'd just like to see them involved in the process, so does that make sense to you?

SEC. SOLIS: Absolutely. And I spoke earlier about an experience that I shared with the panel here regarding the East LA Skill Center in California that has partnered with IBEW with the school district and with a private entrepreneur. And they collectively have come together and agreed to train, provide the curricula, the skills, and the jobs --

SEN. SANDERS: That's exactly the kind of cooperation I think makes sense.

My other question is will the recovery funds also provide for the pathways out of poverty program or a similar effort to fund community partnerships as authorized under the Green Jobs Act?

SEC. SOLIS: I am currently working with my staff, the employment training staff, and keep in mind, I don't have all of my assistant secretaries in place, so we're having to really push hard our career staff and others and bringing other technicians to help us put together the guidelines so that we are as inclusive as possible. So from the get go, we do everything we can to make sure that all of our stakeholders have a fair chance at getting involved and that is almost, I want to say almost a must on my part because I truly believe that that's what our president envisioned in green jobs that everyone could partake and be a stakeholder and yes, have access at any point to enter in for these jobs.

SEN. SANDERS: It seems to me that the Department of Labor has an enormously important role to play in this energy transformation. Because what I can see in Vermont and I suspect all over this country is that right now if you wanted to get your house refurbished to make it more energy efficient, you know what, you will have a hard time finding skilled workers that you need. If you want to install solar panels, if you want to have a wind turbine maintained, if you want to do geothermal, we don't have the workers there.

Are you working closely with other agencies to make sure that we are training the personnel? You can have all of the great technology out there, but if we don't have people that know how to install it and maintain it, we're not going to make much progress. Are you working with other agencies in this?

SEC. SOLIS: Yes, and Senator I would be remiss if I didn't mention that the Department of Education will also play a tremendous role in training our instructors but also providing the support that's going to be necessary to provide incentives so that educational institutions understand that we want them to be active participants. Whether it's the community college system or even the vocational and adult education program as well. Because everyone has a stake in this.

I heard yesterday from a group of the California School Board Association that were very interested in even having what they call the ROP Programs involved in these aspects as well. Because they can provide delivery right away. We want to make sure though that certification and standards are high --

SEN. SANDERS: Right.

SEC. SOLIS: -- that there is a good degree and we can account for that of training that's provided. We want to be able to go back and audit and make sure that we are on target and that we also make sure that we are looking at a long term occupations that will be available.

So as we speak now I may not have all of that at my hand, but we certainly are having my staff instructed to help us get there.

SEN. SANDERS: Well as chair of the Green Jobs Committee and EPW, we look forward to working with you. There's just unbelievable potential out there for the creation of green jobs, for protecting our planet, and you're going to be playing a very important role in that.

So we look forward to working with you. Thank you very much.

SEC. SOLIS: Thank you. Congratulations.

SEN. SANDERS: Thank you Madame Chair.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you very much.

We will now have a second round of questions for anybody who would like to do that before we turn to our second panel.

And I just have a few questions, Madame Secretary. I wanted to ask you about the competitive grants under the economic recovery plan and how the department is going to measure the effectiveness of those grant projects so that we know that they're really working.

SEC. SOLIS: Madame Chair, I know that this is of great concern to many members of the Senate and the House because in previous administration, there may not have been enough accountability and what I intend to do is to make sure that we have measurement tools available so that we can monitor but also provide if necessary any technical assistance. And make sure that we are on focus with any of these recovery program monies that are going out there now.

So yes, we will be very open to I think a more robust auditing and also monitoring of these various funds and that --

SEN. MURRAY: So are you writing measurements now so that everybody knows what they have to achieve with these?

SEC. SOLIS: Those guidelines are being worked on as we speak and will be issued for the most part for green jobs by June.

SEN. MURRAY: By June. Okay. And how is the department going to share information about what does work and what doesn't once you get that information back?

SEC. SOLIS: Everything will be posted through the Department of Labor on DOL.gov recovery. So that information will be transparent in addition as you know President Barak Obama also has a website available to show where all federal stimulus monies are going.

SEN. MURRAY: Okay. And you are going to be working with other secretaries, I assume, you mentioned HUD, you were working with HUD and Department of Education and other agencies because this does cross a lot of --

SEC. SOLIS: Department of Energy, yes, in fact Secretary Chu and I visited Allegheny College not too long ago and we're touring the community college there to look at potential opportunities where we could provide incentives for funding. And I know he will have a big role here, he has a larger pot of money than I do in terms of providing the kind of research funding, start up money, to get these businesses going and to get that expertise in the field.

SEN. MURRAY: Okay. Thank you very much.

Senator Casey.

SEN. CASEY: Thank you, Senator Murray and thank you Madame Secretary. Two questions. One is getting back to the question of weatherization, we have in Pennsylvania basically the second oldest state by population about a little more than 15.5 percent of our population over 65. A lot of those individuals who happen to be older citizens are living in very old homes in many cases, many of them deceived into hiring people that were corrupt and -- because they wanted to hire them to do home repairs, for example, they would enter into agreements which would be bad for them and which were based upon false and misleading assertions by those people.

I know the recovery bill provides funding for weatherization which, as you know, does so much on efficiency. It does create jobs. Can you talk to us a little bit about how that's being deployed and implemented? I guess it's not only -- it involves a couple of agencies other than yours --

SEC. SOLIS: Right.

SEN. CASEY: -- HUD as well. But can you talk to us a little bit about how that's going and -- and the benefits of it?

SEC. SOLIS: Well, I know that there's been a lot of discussion and a very ambitious plan to provide weatherization for I believe a million -- that's the goal, a million homes -- and it is I think primarily based out of the Department of Housing and Urban Development --

SEN. CASEY: Right.

SEC. SOLIS: -- and we are working with the secretary on that to -- to think about how we can improve the job training aspect so that we really do set up some standards so that isn't just a short-term job after the funds run out that somehow these people will -- will not have a job after that. So we do want to create bridges so we can expose them to other types of occupations as well that would call upon those same skill sets. So that's something that I envision as doing.

With respect to individuals that have been abused by unscrupulous small businesses, we are looking at also through the Department of Labor -- really looking at because of our Office of Contract Compliance overseeing who those grants go to, what kinds of entities that are attached to that, and also trying to make sure that our -- our Wage and Hour, for example, programs have more assistance so they can go out and actually look at these sites to see that our labor laws and that people are being treated fairly, that they're being paid their wages, and that nobody is hopefully being taken advantage of.

SEN. CASEY: And secondly, with regard to part of your testimony, we have a significant problem with returning service members, the veterans who were working in a particular job when they left to serve their country and they're coming back and not getting those jobs, in many cases because of an action that's -- that's illegal, and unfortunately some of the illegal actors are -- are governments at various levels. That discussion is for another day but I'm glad that on Page 3 of your testimony you talk about the Veterans' Employment Training and Service (sic), the so-called V-E-T-S, VETS, whose mission is to provide veterans and transitioning service members resources and services needed to maximize their employment opportunities. Can you talk to us a little bit about -- about your efforts there?

SEC. SOLIS: Part of our jurisdiction requires that we also go after employers that we find have refused to take back the employment of, say, a returning service man or woman. Keep in mind that we have a very scaled down program as a result of the last eight years. We're hoping to increase that and become a more vigorous proponent for veterans whether it's helping to provide them with training, hooking them up, so to speak, with small businesses for opportunities, even those that are disabled.

That is going to be a big mission that I personally have interest in because of the area that I come from in Los Angeles. We have such a high rate of veterans. We're going to see many coming back with disabilities so we're going to also have to reach out to our employer community to see how we can make sure that there is a bridge so that there is job placement opportunities, but also within federal government we also have an obligation to hire these returning veterans, men and women.

There are good programs that have -- that have started, I know, across the country. Helmets to Hardhats, where some of the union apprenticeship programs have gone out of their way to really integrate and bring in our veterans into these programs, young veterans that might be interested in the construction trades or electrician or carpentry -- whatever it might be. But those are opportunities that we want to continue to support and then hopefully have a component -- an education component that will help provide them additional set of skills that they might be able to move up the ladder because so many of these veterans are so young that are coming back.

SEN. CASEY: Thank you, Madame Secretary.

SEC. SOLIS: Thank you.

SEN. MURRAY: Senator Hagan?

SEN. KAY HAGAN (D-NC): Thank you, Madame Chairman. Secretary Solis, North Carolina has a rich tradition in agriculture and forestry. In fact, agricultural production accounts for about 52 percent of our gross domestic product in North Carolina, and as I'm sure you're aware, this industry creates massive amounts of biowaste when cultivating crops and livestock. Some of the companies in my state have worked with landowners and the farmers to use the biowaste and the biomass to create green energy, and these companies now are capitalizing on an idea that farmers can play a significant role in helping to create more renewable energy, and I certainly do agree.

It's -- I've toured some of these farms and it's remarkable what they're doing. But how can we continue to cultivate this tradition and work with farmers, foresters, and other landowners, and will the money appropriated by the stimulus package be used to provide job training to workers in agricultural and forestry industry?

SEC. SOLIS: Thank you for that question. Yesterday I had the opportunity to attend my first Cabinet meeting with the president and other members of the Cabinet and this very discussion came up about how we can kind of work interagency because there's a need in agriculture and also in the Department of Interior in forestry where there is that skill component -- education and skill training that needs to be coordinated better. There's -- there's talk of possibly even creating a position where we can look at how we can better coordinate all these opportunities.

But there is a need to do this and I know that the other Cabinet members are very interested. So I think we will be working out through our discussions and through also the Middle Class Task Force, quite frankly, as to how we can kind of integrate -- not overlap and not duplicate but to make sure that each agency has that opportunity because we do need people in forestry. We do need people in agriculture and small farmers to be a part of this. There has to be loan programs made available, some R and D as well, that can help those farmers become a mainstay in the green job economy.

SEN. HAGAN: Uh-huh. Do you think that future Department of Labor budget requests will include green training programs for agricultural workers and any idea what those programs might look like?

SEC. SOLIS: I couldn't tell you offhand. I think that's a discussion you may want to have with the Cabinet secretary of Department of Ag and also of Interior.

SEN. HAGAN: Okay.

SEC. SOLIS: Yeah.

SEN. HAGAN: All righty. I have another question concerning the fact -- the diverse workforce. In North Carolina, we have a rapidly growing and diversifying workforce. The Census Bureau estimated that we will increase our workforce by more than 50 percent over the next 20 years, and in your written testimony, and you said it also orally, that you mentioned that unemployment rates for minorities are higher than average.

And once again, in North Carolina in 2008 the employment rate among African Americans was about 50 percent higher than Caucasian unemployment rates, and you also discussed efforts to ensure that investments in green jobs will benefit women and minorities. Can you provide any further detail on how you think we can improve the opportunities for women and minorities in the -- in green job sector?

SEC. SOLIS: I think from the get-go when we put out our -- our grant solicitation we have to be very clear what it is we're looking for and, of course, as a component through the green jobs there is a pathway out of poverty and that, I believe, will help capture at least a good segment of the population that we know has been traditionally left out. We also want to make sure that there are opportunities and this is where I think the Senate and the Congress can be helpful through your own networks to make sure that folks that you know that would like to get involved in these proposals or involved in the grants programs to contact our regional offices.

So I think that can also be helpful. I think there's so much that we can all do together, and then making sure that our one-stops have at every point an opportunity, information that's available that they are going out into the community, not just waiting for people to come in, because typically you will miss a lot of folks unless you're out in the community. So we're -- we're looking at this arrangement in a very proactive manner.

SEN. HAGAN: Do you have any idea on how much you can -- you think you can actually reduce the unemployment in -- in the country with -- with this, green energy jobs?

SEC. SOLIS: We're hoping that there may be potentially 3.5 million jobs either created or that are kept, and as you know right now as I said earlier we -- we have lost already 5 million. We have 5 million unemployed people. So we have a ways to go and I think that it's going to be some -- a bit of time to be taken to make sure that we have these programs in place for the retraining. We do have a shortage of -- not enough skilled individuals to go into these jobs where I think if we had done more of that homework before we wouldn't be in such a -- such a bad position that we are now where we have to really work really hard to get people trained and -- and in a rapid, rapid manner.

SEN. HAGAN: Thank you.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you. Senator Merkley?

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): I thank you, Madame Chair. In the Pacific Northwest, we have a significant challenge with forests burning at increasing rates. This is partly a change in the amount of rain but it's also because we have millions of acres of overgrown second growth forest that create an easy pathway for fires to go from a lower level to -- up into the upper stories of the -- of the forest. I was very pleased that there was funding for forest help in the recovery act. It has multiple environmental consequences.

One is that the forests don't burn. You don't put carbon dioxide in vast quantities into the atmosphere. But you also -- by thinning these forests you create forests that are much better for timber stands in some cases and certainly forests that are better for ecosystems in -- in others. Does the issue of thinning forests and addressing forest health fit within the green jobs definition and can we anticipate your support for continuing to have these -- these sort of jobs included?

SEC. SOLIS: I would think so. It's a broad definition. If we're looking at reducing additional contaminants in the air because of fires obviously that -- that would qualify, and I know that there is a great interest on the part of the Department of Interior, the secretary, who has indicated that they really do want to see more individuals going into the forestry and protecting our -- our forests but also providing the training that's necessary. So I believe that our department and -- and Department of Interior as well as Agriculture will be working at identifying those areas that are (a most need ?) and I would agree with you that forest fires also plague states like California.

SEN. MERKLEY: Yes. I'm certainly aware of that. You have experienced many of the same challenges and -- well, I appreciate your -- your support in that -- in that area. It's very important to the ecosystems and -- and certainly to the economy of -- of my state. Another area in our -- we're putting up a lot of wind turbines in -- in Oregon. We are delighted to have some very good areas for -- for wind energy.

But we would also like to see America creating, building these turbines, exporting them to the -- to the world. Part of this puzzle isn't just to create immediate short-term jobs and installation, if you will, or forest health but also to rebuild the manufacturing infrastructure. Would you like to expand a little bit on -- on how our investment in green jobs can -- can help restore manufacturing and help America supply products to the world?

SEC. SOLIS: Well, I think that's kind of a two-pronged area because we also need to have businesses that are ready to make the investments, capital investment, and I know that the Obama administration looks very favorably on providing research and development funding and tax assistance -- tax credit assistance for those industries that are willing to get into these kinds of industries. So I do see that kind of folding itself out in the next year or two quickly and I do know that there is a strong -- a strong effort to try to secure where there will be job growth -- that we have that job growth occurring where we can manufacture, produce, assemble whatever it is we need for turbines, for wind energy, or whatever it might be here in the United States.

That's going to be a challenge because much of that steel and other equipment has been imported in the past. But there may be ways of looking at other materials that may be more economical and ecologically more safe and, of course, that's not my bailiwick but I'm certain somebody is looking at that now, perhaps Department of Energy and some other folks. But I'm -- I'm certain that there will be some good opportunities for that.

SEN. MERKLEY: Thank you very much, Madame Secretary.

SEC. SOLIS: Thank you.

SEN. MURRAY: Madame Secretary, thank you so much for your testimony. Senator Enzi has indicated that he will have some questions to submit. I will as well and we would ask for your expediency in responding to those. But thank you very much for your testimony and your coming before our committee this morning, and you made it through your first hearing.

SEC. SOLIS: Thank you. I look forward to working with you on -- and Senator Enzi on reauthorization of -- of WIA and how we can strengthen as we move forward the green jobs.

SEN. MURRAY: All right. Thank you very much. And we will now turn to our second panel, so if they will come forward and we will get your nametags placed in front of you. As they are coming forward, I'm going to go ahead and introduce them so we can move forward in an expeditious manner. I will be introducing four of our panelists and Senator Enzi will be introducing someone from his home state.

So I will begin with Lee Lambert. He serves as president of Shoreline Community College. He is a member of the Education Council of the Manufacturing Institute which is the research, education, and workforce arm of the National Association of Manufacturers. He's also a member of the Washington Campus Compact's executive board and we welcome him here.

Phil Lou is an apprentice with Artisan Electric, Inc. It's a small family-owned union business in Vashon Island in Washington State. He's co-founder of Greenworks Technologies, Inc., which is a company that specializes in renewable energy technologies such as photovoltaic, solar hot water, energy audits, weatherization, and rain catchment. Phil completed the zero energy program at Shoreline Community College.

Welcome here.

Dean Allen is CEO of McKinstry Company. It's a full-service design, build, operate, and maintain firm with over 1,600 employees. He currently serves on the boards of the Seattle Biomedical Research Institute, Global Partnerships, the program for Appropriate Technology and Health, and Seattle Children's Hospital. He also serves on the Washington Roundtable and the Partnership for Learning.

Mark Ayers currently serves as president of the Building and Construction Trades Department, AFL-CIO. Following his service as a Vietnam-era Naval aviator, Mark began his career as an apprentice inside electrician with IBEW Local 34 in Peoria, Washington. Mark also serves as chair of the Center for Construction Education and Research (sic), CPWR, co-chair of the Construction Users Roundtable Tripartite Initiative, and labor co-chair of Helmets to Hardhats, a veterans employment program. Senator Enzi?

SEN. ENZI: Thank you, Madame Chairman. Joan Evans is the director of the Wyoming Department of Workforce Services. She was appointed by the governor in December of 2006. It's the state's newest agency and it's dedicated to developing a demand-driven workforce. The department provides employment and training, business and vocational rehabilitation services throughout Wyoming.

She came to the department from the Carbon County Higher Education Center in Rawlins where she served for 15 years. The center is community funded, providing adult basic education and vocational programs, and is an outreach center for Western Wyoming Community College. She spent much of her career working with adult students who were seeking training for career advancement and developing training programs to meet Wyoming's economy.

She served on the Wyoming Workforce Development Council. She has a Bachelor's degree in finance and a Master's degree in adult education, and I'm very pleased that Director Evans was able to join us today and I look forward to her testimony. Thank you.

SEN. MURRAY: Again, thank you to all of our panelists. You've all submitted written statements. We would ask you to give a five- minute opening statement and then we will turn to rounds of questions from our colleagues. Lee Lambert, we are going to begin with you.

MR. LAMBERT: Madame Chairman, members of the committee, I'm Lee Lambert, for the record. I am president of Shoreline Community College. We are located 10 miles north of downtown Seattle, Washington, and I'm pleased to be here today to talk to -- to speak on behalf of the Washington State Board for Community and Technical Colleges and the 34 colleges that comprise our system.

It's a new technology but it's the same old mission, and community and technical colleges across this country -- the 1,200 plus -- we are delivering on green job training. In the state of Washington through our Centers of Excellence and through our individual campus locations and programs, we are also delivering on green job training. At Shoreline Community College, we have put an emphasis in one of the areas around renewable energies -- automotive program. We are currently training students and incumbent workers to work on the latest advanced vehicle technologies whether it be hybrid, soon-to-be, plug-ins, and all-electric cars.

Also, in our solar panel design and installation program we're training students to -- to understand how to conduct energy audits, how to assess consumer consumption levels in the home, as well as designing solar electric systems and then -- this is very important -- working with licensed electricians to complete the installation process of those solar panels. So how are we doing this? We're doing this through our partnerships and we're very good at partnerships.

We partner with the manufacturers, with business and industry, with labor, with our local workforce development councils and boards, with our K-12 systems, with -- with local governments, with federal and state governments, with other colleges and universities. In other words, we know partnerships. We know how to cultivate them, we know how to grow them, and we know how to maximize them in order to train workers for the green economy.

Access -- as you all are aware, community and technical colleges are about open access, but it's not enough to bring people in to our training programs. We need to be successful in training those students through those training programs. In the state of Washington, we have developed an innovative approach to access and it's called Integrated Basic Education and Skills Training -- in short, IBEST. IBEST brings together content instructor along with the basic skills instructor working together to ensure that our students from all of our backgrounds -- whether they're disadvantaged, low-income, minority populations, women -- will be successful.

So when they see that ladder they can climb that ladder along the pathway to success in a high-wage, high-demand field. Also, faculty -- we cannot deliver these programs without a well-trained qualified faculty so our ability to recruit, retain, and develop them is essential to us moving forward. Now, let me use an example that really brings all of this together in terms of partnerships, access, and faculty.

A few years ago, Shoreline Community College received a community-based job training grant through the Department of Labor. We focused it with a partnership -- in partnership with Toyota we pursued this grant to create an entry-level general service technician program. In creating that program we also worked with our community- based partners with our workforce development councils, et cetera, to identify low-income disadvantaged students to participate in the program because the program was focused on reaching out to those who have historically been left out of the educational process.

Through that and bringing together our content faculty with a basic skills faculty member, we demonstrated success in a very short period of time that we can move students from where they are to where they want to be in their future. So in short, community and technical colleges are getting the job done in green job training. We're developing the programs, we're continuing to develop the programs, and just like Shoreline Community College, many of the other colleges are doing this. And your investment now and your investment in the future will continue to yield positive results. Thank you very much.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you. Phil Lou?

MR. LOU: Madame Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Phil Lou and I am from Vashon Island, Washington. I am honored and humbled to be here today. Thank you for the opportunity to share my story. I am a college graduate and have worked as a fisheries biologist, foreign fisheries observer, and commercial fisherman. For the past 15 years I've been working with wood.

I've built homes, fine cabinetry and furniture, and installed custom yacht interiors. The work was interesting, challenging, and financially rewarding but I did not find it fulfilling. I wanted to work in a field that benefited the community and the environment. As a teenager in Honolulu, Hawaii, I joined the Sierra Club high school hikers program.

We spent weekends and school holidays hiking, backpacking, and working on conservation projects. I developed a deep appreciation and respect for nature and conservation. After college, I spent -- I served in the Peace Corps as an inland fisheries volunteer. For two years, I lived in a small village in the West African nation of Cameroon.

The village had no electricity or running water. There was a stark contrast between my life in the United States and the lives of the villagers. My first practical application of solar energy was when I heated water in a black jug in the sun for my evening baths. These are some of the experiences that formed the value that led to my interest in renewable energy.

In searching for formal education I found Shoreline Community College's zero energy technology program. Classes are offered in photovoltaic design and installation, solar thermal water heating, residential and commercial energy audits, and green building practices. I enrolled in the photovoltaic class and twice a week I took two ferries and made the 2.5 hour commute up to Shoreline from Vashon Island.

The class taught me theory, design, and safe installation practices of solar electric generating systems. We've benefited from our instructor, Mike Nelson, and his 33 years of experience with renewable energy systems.

In addition to classroom instruction, we had hands-on experience by installing a solar array on campus. In Washington State, an electrician's license is required by law to install solar arrays that are connected to the electrical grid.

I obtained an electrician's trainee card and I am now serving my apprenticeship with Artisan Electric Incorporated, a small family- owned union business on Vashon Island. The skills and education I gained from Shoreline Community College are an asset to this company. My current responsibilities include photovoltaic design and installation. Our company has completed three installations and there are four more scheduled for May.

We have seven additional installation proposals. With what I've learned from Shoreline Community College and with help from my employer, Jason Williams, I was able to install a solar array in my home, and it works. My family and I watch with satisfaction as our utility meter spins backwards on most days, meaning our array is generating more electricity that we're using and the balance is swung back into the local electrical grid. In addition to work I'm doing with Artisan Electric, I am a co-founder of Greenworks Technologies, formed by students I met in the zero energy program.

This company will specialize in renewable energy technology and we recently presented our first solar thermal installation proposal. There is a perception that community colleges are an educational stepping stone to universities. It may be true in some cases but in my case it was the reverse. Twenty-four years after graduating from the University of Oregon, I attended Shoreline Community College to gain the specialized skills necessary to participate in the emerging green energy industry.

This new work has been challenging, satisfying, and inspiring. I think often of the children, including my 15-year-old son, Jeffrey Lou, and what kind of world we will leave them. My hope is that this will be my -- this will be my contribution to a responsible solution for our future energy needs. Thank you. Mahala -- (speaks Hawaiian).

SEN. MURRAY: Dean Allen?

MR. ALLEN: Thank you, Senator Murray. I'm happy to be here representing McKinstry. We have for the last 49 years focused on growing our company around helping our employees achieve their goals as well. As mentioned in our submitted brief, we've been the last five decades working in the design, build, operate, and maintain arena, performing electrical and mechanical in energy conservation work.

We have about 1,400 staff. We started in the Pacific Northwest but now have offices in 13 cities around the country and including a brand new 50,000 square foot space we opened yesterday for our staff in Oregon -- in Portland, Oregon. First, I'd like to say what we do in the area of energy efficiency. We partner with customers and look for ways to lower their energy costs and their energy consumption. They end up with new infrastructure, lowers their carbon footprint.

The projects are paid for by the cost avoidance of the utility that's saved and we create green jobs along the way. It's a revenue- neutral strategy -- doesn't require a lot of stimulus, although we're hopeful that some of it will find its way in that direction. For your interest, there's about a trillion dollars worth of revenue-neutral projects available by our estimation in America here in the next 10 years and these are projects that we can create green jobs on.

In terms of why we do what we do, for the last 49 years, in particular for the last 10 or 15, we have been focusing on energy efficiency. We find that when we work with customers we lower their utility bills and their utility use by somewhere between 30 and 50 percent. If half of the energy in America is wasted there's a goldmine available for us in terms of getting out and working on energy efficiency, and it's especially important to prioritize energy efficiency, first, because it provides really the runway that we need for new technologies and for renewable energy solutions to find their way into the marketplace.

So in our opinion the first wave of jobs is about energy efficiency. The second wave that we ought to be training for is about renewables and a smart grid. The next point I'd like to make is about how we do it so I think we are in some ways unique to other folks. So half of our staff approximately are professional engineers, office folks that are innovating systems, providing professional design and 3-D modeling and fabrication and monitoring of the systems that we've put in place.

The other half are union craftsmen that are working out in the field putting these installations in place, and I think this gives us a unique perspective on the intersection between the technology and the innovation and sort of the higher ed aspects of green jobs but also the green collar side of our (crafts folks ?). Four points I'd like to make today -- first, individual companies like mine need to take responsibility to train their employees both trained, retrain, and manage their pipeline. We spend a tremendous amount of time in our community working with community colleges, voc techs, and our union partners in their apprenticeship programs and we need to take responsibility to grow our company, and we do.

We have our own functioning McKinstry University inside of our company. We're just finishing our building a second training center for our staff and working with our partners, individual private companies like ours need to take responsibility and not wait around for solutions to come from afar.

Second, as many of the Senators have said, it's really important that we leverage the tremendous assets we have in training in America today. We have agreements with 40 different union craft organizations in different geographies that we work in and different crafts, so, plumbers, pipe fitters, sheet metal workers, electricians and such.

These folks are experts at training. They're done in joint apprenticeship training programs where management is also providing help and support to these programs. Likewise, in our voc-tech programs, we need to work with community colleges and voc-techs to add curriculum, to add focus, to provide instruction, to provide work opportunities for these folks and internship programs and leverage the existing system we have and not build a parallel system.

I would reemphasize that we want to be careful also not to do all of our training about renewable energies systems that will be coming further in the future because we have five or six million people that need to get put back to work and energy efficiency can happen now.

Third, it's really important that industry identifies the skills that they need and that we have a way to coordinate the back to our educational partners. In our work, its about multi-disciplinary engineering work, its about doing the math on renewable energy projects and energy efficient projects, its about slight modifications to the skill set of our electrical and mechanical and other trades folks so that they can have curriculum instituted into their work.

It's about energy auditing and facility managers so that we can make sure that we are managing these systems when we're done so they actually do produce the savings that we get when we first do the retrofits; certainly the maintenance thereof.

Fourth, and last, I would like to say that we think that the real focus on this also needs to be focus in the K-12 System. I think we do a tremendous disservice to our kids on America when we underemphasize math and science.

We, in the past, have thought about math and science in our K-12 Systems being about kids going to higher ed. In our world with 1,000 union craftsmen, I can tell you that if you graduate from high school and you can't pass the math and science competency tests, you cannot pass through the filter to become an apprentice as a plumber, a pipe fitter, a sheet metal worker or an electrician.

So, while we're thinking about green jobs, we also need to be thinking about strengthening the underpinning of our K-12 System as well.

Thank you for the opportunity.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you very much.

Mr. Ayers.

MR. AYERS: Madame Chair, members of the committee, thank you for providing me this opportunity to address you today.

Considerable attention is being directed toward green jobs and related training initiatives; jobs that will help American workers obtain secure career paths as our nation embarks upon a transition to a more sustainable economy. I appreciate the opportunity to offer the views of the Building and Construction Trades Department, which is a coalition of 13 national and international unions representing 2.5 million skilled crafts men and women in the United States and Canada.

I am especially pleased to serve on the panel that follows Secretary of Labor, Hilda Solis, one of the architects of the Green Jobs Act of 2007 and a tremendous advocate for American working families. We have all heard the projections that green jobs are expected to expand rapidly in the years ahead. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act alone is expected to create hundreds of thousands of jobs in energy efficiency measures, smart grid development, home weatherization, building retrofits and related areas.

I'd like to address some of these themes today, starting with a perspective on how green jobs should be defined.

First, it is important to define green jobs in broad and nonrestrictive terms. Simply stated, green jobs consist of work that increases environmental sustainability and contributes to an economy that reduces emissions of green house gases. However, to assure the broadest possible economic benefits from green investments, it's critical that public policy connects green jobs with employment standards; standards that offer family sustaining wages and benefits and include upwardly mobile career pathways.

Workers are desperate for jobs that not only provide immediate employment, but also jobs that place them on career paths. Career paths that will enable them to earn better incomes as they develop higher skills and as they gain work experience. When it comes to training, the Building and Construction Trades Department and our member unions are not only believers in forming partnerships, we are practitioners.

A central feature of the construction industry's unionized training programs is the partnership that exists between us and our contractor employers.

Finally, the Building Trades believes that new jobs created by the greening of America should be linked to proven career pathways out of poverty and into the middle class.

We are committed to create high road jobs around green building retrofit activities in targeted cities around the country. Further, we hope that these initiatives that connect the demands for a less carbon centered economy with the potential for significant job growth will become the centerpiece of expanded labor and community alliances.

These alliances can and do ensure the placement of local residence in pre-apprenticeship and apprenticeship programs that are designed to place them on a path to a secure career in the skilled trades. Rebuilding the American economy, the middle class and restoring the American dream represents enormous challenges; challenges that we are prepared to embrace working in partnership with other progressive social forces in our society.

We look forward to this challenge and we are committed to its success.

Thank you, Madame Chairwoman. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have after everyone speaks.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you very much.

Joan Evans.

MS. EVANS: Madame Chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be with you today, I'm Joan Evans.

The Wyoming Department of Workforce Services endeavors to enhance the skills of our job seekers and match those individuals to employment throughout the state relying primarily on U.S. Department of Labor Workforce Investment Act and Wagner-Peyser funding to accomplish this objective. I'd like to thank Secretary Solis and the Employment Training Administration for their guidance.

The Department interacts with a wide variety of industries, including green industries, although these do not yet constitute a large share of the Wyoming economy. While the definition of green jobs varies widely, this testimony assumes that green jobs are primarily ones that encompass renewable energy, conservation and energy efficiency.

The Department of Workforce Services is both proactive and reactive in determining the skills needed by industry. For example, the Department is actively pursuing a strategy that encourages creation of partnerships involving multiple businesses within the same industrial sector. Other key players in these industry partnerships are local and state public entities, economic development, education and training programs.

Sometimes referred to as sector solutions, these types of partnerships bring together the key workforce development players in an atmosphere that encourages collaboration, communication and trust. The partnerships primary goals are to determine workforce needs across an entire industry sector and then develop solutions.

The final step is to identify training or other providers to secure revenue sources to tie to those identified issues. Through these partnerships, public workforce and education dollars are better focused to help multiple businesses within the industry sector, reducing duplication and focusing on more efficient use of our taxpayer dollars.

The Department, in collaboration with the state's Workforce Investment Board has determined that the healthcare and energy sectors, including renewable energy industries, are to be the main foci of the Wyoming Industry Partnership initiative. The Council has set aside $400,000 in stimulus funding from the Workforce Investment Act -- 15 percent set aside -- to focus and support the healthcare and industry partnerships in industry and healthcare. Approximately $100,000 of that will also be used to enhance worker skills in the renewable energy industry.

The industry partnership concept drew considerable support during the 2009 legislative session and a measure was introduced that would have codified the initiative and provided state funding to support eligible partnerships. Although the measure ultimately failed, it achieved a degree of success in educating lawmakers about the industry partnership concept and the potential for workforce development.

Wind energy is emerging as a key green industry in Wyoming and our educational providers are responding. The list is long and in light of other programs being cut at their institutions, resources are being directed toward wind technician programs, wind-solar biomass technology training, renewable energy, energy efficiency, green electricity, green plumbing, construction and environmental technicians.

As training providers respond, the department's 20 plus 1 stops are able to connect job training opportunities through the Workforce Investment Act and other funding sources.

Wind energy is probably the most visible of the green industries in Wyoming and through another tool, the Wyoming Workforce Development Training Fund, which is stocked with state dollars, we are able to help eligible businesses train new and incumbent workers. During the past year, that fund has allowed companies to access training in a variety of green practices and assist those employees in sharpening their skills.

Another entity that will significantly impact Wyoming's ability to train workers is in renewable energy, specifically, is the planned Federal Wind River Job Course Center. I'd like to recognize Senator Enzi's efforts to support and secure funding for this center. It will include a renewable and energy training center that will be a state of the art facility enabling students to acquire the skills they need to work safely in the energy industry, but also provide reclamation training, environmental studies, renewable energy training, geology exploration and extraction resource training.

This center will open in February of 2011 and provide training to hundreds of youth while also creating over 100 permanent jobs in Wyoming. The full potential of Wyoming's green industry currently may not be known, yet we stand ready to assist our job seekers in gaining those skills for this new economy.

Thank you.

SEN. MURRAY: Thank you very much to all of you for really excellent testimony.

We will now turn to some questions and Mr. Lambert, you described how you really worked in partnership and Joan Evans did as well with a lot of your communities, to develop the curriculum that was relevant to the training that you're doing. How did you work to make sure that those jobs were going to be relevant inside your own community?

MR. LAMBERT: Madame Chair, what we do is when we bring together the community partners, we bring that process through what we call a (daycom ?) or developing a curriculum process.

As part of that, we look at what are the needs out in the community for potential employment, so we're not developing a program where there isn't a place from students to land. It's through that process -- and that process focuses on other things as well, but I just wanted you to know that's how we figure that out; it's not just the college by itself, but with its partners.

SEN. MURRAY: Okay.

You really reach out --

MR. LAMBERT: Absolutely.

SEN. MURRAY: Mr. Lou; a great success story and it was really interesting to hear how you got to where you are today and very exciting.

How did you ever learn about the solar program at Shoreline?

MR. LOU: I was speaking with a friend about getting some training and he mentioned that there is a link to Shoreline Community Colleges -- (inaudible) -- training and it was on a link on, I believe, solarenergy.org website.

I tried to enroll, but I was number 18 on the waiting list, so I waited for the next class.

SEN. MURRAY: Do you have a long waiting list, Mr. President?

MR. LAMBERT: Yes, we have.

The enthusiasm for this program goes without saying and what Mike Nelson, our key instructor, has done is started to take more people into the class so that we wouldn't turn away the --

SEN. MURRAY: I'm glad you didn't because he is now creating jobs --

MR. LAMBERT: We agree; we agree.

SEN. MURRAY: Mr. Lou, as a practitioner now in the field, how do you see the long term viability and sustainability of the energy field and the jobs that are there?

MR. LOU: I think there's a great future for it.

There's a lot of interest on Vashon Island and in fact, because of the large number of subscribers to the Puget Sound Energy's green power program, Sustainable Vashon, an organization there, got a grant for two solar rays to be installed; one of the three that will be installed next month.

SEN. MURRAY: Okay.

MR. LOU: So, there's a good future and there is a lot of interest.

SEN. MURRAY: Mr. Allen, let me kind of ask you that question.

We've heard some concern that jobs in the green economy won't be sustainable or competitive; in other words, not good jobs. We've heard some of that criticism.

During your time in the industry, what's been your impression of the sustainability of families supporting jobs in this green economy?

MR. ALLEN: I would have a decidedly different view point of that.

Our professionals -- our average salaries are about the same inside the company on the professional side as they are on the installation and construction side, counting benefits -- it's about $100,000 a year. So, those would be pretty much at the top edge of what's available in the construction side as well as on the professional side.

I think one of the thinks that's confusing folks -- and it's not a direct answer to your question -- is sort of the difference between conservation and efficiency and renewables. Sometimes I think, in the market place, we use those together.

Conservation is primarily about changing behaviors and having products available to us that help us do that. On the other side of the spectrum are renewables, which are (coming?) to us and it's certainly exciting to see them moving in the direction that they are.

We're primarily in the middle of that with energy efficiency and the energy efficiency jobs are primarily on design and engineering and the ideation side of it, and then craftsmen and craftswomen actually doing the work on the installation side; then the maintenance and operations thereafter. They are all family wage jobs or above.

SEN. MURRAY: You, in your testimony, talked a lot about your own investment in training your workforce.

Can you talk a little bit about McKinstry's return on investment for providing training education opportunities for your employees?

MR. ALLEN: We don't actually start with a notion of a return on investment; we start with a notion that that's what company's ought to be doing for the people that they have the pleasure of employing.

So, for our 49 years in business, it's been a people-first kind of an organization. We have had this enterprise we call McKinstry University for all the 30 years that I have been at McKinstry and it continues to grow because as the world changes faster and the economy changes faster; as we have gone from having a couple people working in energy efficiency 10 years ago to having 500 people working, we've needed to take folks that were either outside the marketplace and didn't have the skills we needed, or already working for us and moving from one part of our company to another and provide them the training they needed to take good care of our customers.

We don't think of this as something that has an ROI relative to the profits of the company; this is sort of first and front and center for the job we have to do.

With that said, we have been able to take advantage of the changes in the marketplace and by having our staff ready and trained, it's helped us grow much faster than others.

SEN. MURRAY: Okay.

Senator Enzi.

SEN. ENZI: Thank you, Madame Chairman.

This has been fascinating and helpful. I do remember when I went to graduate school -- and that's been 40 years ago -- that my most fascinating professor said, "The future is in stopping pollution", and he's gotten more right all the time and its interesting that we're discussing this now.

When it comes to Wyoming, we've been trying to get people to come there to get jobs. They have a little different problem than some of the other states who have huge unemployment.

We have some unemployment, but its because of a lack of skills -- not having the training in the jobs that are available, but there is some real high tech jobs and non-traditional jobs for women that help close that pay gap if we could just get them and train them, Director Evans, I appreciate all the work that you've done in that area.

In light of that, I'd ask you how the Workforce Investment Funds have been used, if at all, in Wyoming for the Green Skills Training. What models have been adopted in Wyoming that might be useful for other people in other states?

MS. EVANS: Senator Enzi, thank you for the question.

At this time, we are focusing on skill development. Our unemployment is hovering just under four percent statewide and we do have employers that need skilled labor; that need is still there.

When trying to track data through our database systems, one thing that becomes clear is that we don't really have a way yet to separate training that we provide our job seekers with under the Workforce Investment Act, whether to tie it directly to green skills or green jobs. So that's something that as we move forward, we may need to look at whether that will be a necessary component.

If we are providing training to a job seeker under the Workforce Investment Act for welding, is it for a regular welding job, will they be incorporating different skill sets and how is that training different from training we may have provided them for a different occupation. So, some of that may be good to know.

We do have information though because of our connections with the community college system, to know that we are using their training programs to train folks that are going to work directly in wind energy; working on the wind turbines that are located in the state, using some of those existing training programs.

For one instance, at Laramie County Community College, where they already had training program for hydraulics and HVAC and those kinds of skills. They'd done some adaptations that have been able to get our students and our job seekers some transferrable skills into green industry and then they are able to go out and serve those employers who are in need of those skills right now.

So, I'm very proud of the way that our community college system has been able to respond.

SEN. ENZI: Thank you, and I'll have some more questions that I'll submit too so we can build the record a little more extensively in dealing with rural areas.

Mr. Allen, you mentioned that you're first area of attack has been on efficiency and the second one on renewables. Is there enough marketing in that area? I know that I just found out that my furnace at home in Wyoming, which we've owned -- it's the only home we've owned -- is over 30 years old. We figured that it needed to be replaced pretty soon and we were surprised to find out the efficiencies that would pay it off.

What kinds of things are being done in the marketing end of that that would drive the demand for the green jobs?

MR. ALLEN: Well, I think we are certainly doing our part in the marketing set.

We're primarily on the commercial side. I know a lot of good work is being done in the Pacific Northwest by our utilities that are trying to use the direct connection they have with customers that are consuming utilities, either electrical or natural gas, with the options that are available to them.

On the commercial side, what we're mostly doing is starting to publicize our successes and we are actually currently working in the state of Wyoming, so we're glad to be there doing energy efficiency projects.

I think one of the things that we've been successful doing is showing rural communities how they can make a difference. An example project would be one where we actually worked with a sustainable forestry operation and helped them purchase a pelletizer that made wood chips from these beetle-kill projects where they are trying to harvest the timber out; they put a lot of scrap into pellets.

We then worked with a rural school district and converted their oil heaters for the school district to biomass boilers. We signed a 10 year contract between the sustainable forestry operation and the school district and now we have a closed loop carbon cycle all paid for on cost avoidance.

I think if we can get people to understand that there are solutions that are available today in the sustainable energy area, then we'll get more traction and create more jobs.

SEN. ENZI: Thank you.

That reminds me; I have an inventors' conference this weekend and my youngest inventor has been an eight year old who figured out how to take tumble weeds and make them into those pressed chips as well and be recycled.

I have questions for the rest of you, but my time has expired and I will be asking some things about how much flexibility with the green jobs there is that fit in -- so that we can make the Workforce Investment Act -- when we redo it -- match up with what we're trying to do on a general plan.

Thank you, Madame Chairman.

SEN. MURRAY: Senator Enzi, unless you have any additional questions for the panel, we have run out of time.

I want to thank everyone who's testified today; excellent testimony. We will have some written questions from some of the senators who were not able to make the hearing and we would request that you could respond back to those in a timely fashion.

This has been especially helpful to our committee as we work towards reauthorizing the WIA Act and making sure that the economic recovery dollars are spent in a way that actually really provides great training for young people out there.

Thank you, very much, to all of you. If there are any members who want to submit a statement for the record, the hearing record will be open for seven days and with that, this hearing is adjourned.

END.

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