Interview with Senator John McCain

SHOW: THE BIG STORY WITH JOHN GIBSON (17:12)

May 10, 2004 Monday

Transcript # 051002cb.263

HEADLINE: Interview with Senator John McCain ® Arizona

GUESTS: John McCain

BYLINE: John Gibson

BODY:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: We came to Iraq to install a regime or just replace one authoritarian regime with another that's not quite so bad, it's not worth the sacrifice of over 700 American lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GIBSON: We're back with Arizona Senator John McCain. Senator, you were in Iraq last August, and you got a prediction about what would happen if we didn't get more troops in there, and we didn't.

MCCAIN: Yes.

GIBSON: What was the prediction?

MCCAIN: I talked to sergeant majors, and lieutenant colonels and colonels, and I also talked to the British. They said unless you get some more people in here very quickly to bring the situation under control in some of these places like Fallujah and others, you're going to face a serious insurgency six or seven months from now. We need more troops in, need more troops now. Yes, there are more troops that are going to stay there, but we may even need more than that, and we have to expand the size of the military. We really do.

GIBSON: Is the question of Donald Rumsfeld resigning purely a question of what went on at the prison in Iraq, or is it a political question that makes it much more difficult to face? In other words, if the president said, you know what, Rummy, you did a great job on the war, but this is awful, and somebody has-it's your fault, out. Doesn't that become a huge political liability for him and, therefore, make it hard for him to make that decision?

MCCAIN: I think it might, but, first of all, I think the president will do the right thing because I think his priorities are correct. I also think that there are some Democrats, obviously, who want to make a partisan issue out of this. But I also know that there are some who don't, and I believe that the majority of Americans want us to move on and to get this thing fully accounted for. I don't believe that Secretary Rumsfeld can be judged yet. We don't have that kind of information yet. We need to get it.

GIBSON: Who is it that has it to give it out?

MCCAIN: I think the Pentagon has more ...

GIBSON: And so does Secretary Rumsfeld.

MCCAIN: Yes, and I think they'll be forthcoming. I think we in Congress will demand it. But I do believe that Secretary Rumsfeld has done a good job transforming the military. I believe he has done a good job in the early stages of the war. We've had our disagreements, but it's very premature to call for his resignation.

GIBSON: At this point, would you even recommend such a thing? There are two wars going on.

MCCAIN: No, no. The fact that there are two wars going on is-complicates it some, but I just wouldn't call for his resignation at this time. And I think that those people that did made a mistake because it looks political.

GIBSON: Let's go back to mid January when the reports first got to Abizaid who then called Myers and so it was in the Pentagon. That was also right at the moment that we were going to have the New Hampshire primary and the Iowa caucuses. Do you think the political climate here had anything to do with that report staying under cover for a few more months?

MCCAIN: I know Abizaid, and I know Myers, and I know these people. They're honorable people, John. I don't accept that they would cover up anything. The burden of proof is not on those ...

GIBSON: They went on with their investigation, and apparently the Pentagon has no obligation to hold a news conference and say look at the bad things we've done. They went on with their investigation.

MCCAIN: And I'm glad they went on with the investigation. I wish we had been better informed, those of us in Congress, particularly on the Armed Services Committee. These are honorable, decent people. I believe that we need it get all the facts out. And I will assume that they were not doing anything for political reasons until the evidence proves that they are.

GIBSON: What do you think would have happened if that news had broken during that Democratic primary season?

MCCAIN: I don't know because I don't know what action they would have taken at that time. It's hard to predict, but it certainly wouldn't have impacted the Republican primary. As far as how would it have affected the Democratic primary? I don't know, because by that time John Kerry had come out very strongly about the war.

GIBSON: Senator John McCain will get to the bottom of it.

MCCAIN: I hope so.

GIBSON: And by the way, his book "Why Courage Matters: The Way to a Braver Life." And this may be exactly what gets us to the bottom of the prison scandal. Senator, it's always good to see you.

MCCAIN: Thanks, John. Thanks for having me.

GIBSON: Thanks for having me.

Coming up on THE BIG STORY, Fox News on the frontlines of the fighting in Karbala. Al-Sadr's militia up to their old tricks clashing with U.S. troops. How do we plan on stopping this radical cleric and his group of thugs?

And now that we know what went on inside the Abu Ghraib prison, was there something fueling the abuse of the inmates there?