Hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee - Transfer of Sovereignty in Iraq

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE

SUBJECT: TRANSFER OF SOVEREIGNTY IN IRAQ

CHAIRED BY: SENATOR RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN)

WITNESSES: MARC GROSSMAN, UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS; ANDREW NATSIOS, ADMINISTRATOR, U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT; PETER W. RODMAN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AFFAIRS; LIEUTENANT GENERAL CLAUDE KICKLIGHTER, TRANSITION CHIEF, COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY; FRANCIS RICCIARDONE JR., COORDINATOR, IRAQ TRANSITION TEAM, STATE DEPARTMENT

LOCATION: 106 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

BODY:
SEN. BROWNBACK: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I thank the gentlemen for coming before us. Secretary Grossman, the last time I saw you was on a sad plane ride to Kansas City for you, I know for a family member --

MR. GROSSMAN: Yes, sir.

SEN. BROWNBACK: -- that had died, and my regrets to you and your family and your wife for that.

MR. GROSSMAN: Thank you for recalling that.

SEN. BROWNBACK: Let me-this may seem odd, because you guys are getting pushed-I want to congratulate you on some of the things that have been taking place. It's to me remarkable what's happened in Libya. It's past remarkable. We went after Qadhafi for 30 years, and him giving up weapons of mass destruction; the move towards democracy that we are seeing in the Middle East is something that people wanted for a long time-we never put any effort into it previously, and now we are, and we are seeing results taking place of that democratization move. It's no wonder to me that all the countries in the region would be-the country leadership in the region would be negatively responding, because you're going right at their power. When you democratize a monarchy or a dictatorship, you're going right at the guys that own the place, and but that's something we shouldn't be afraid of, and we haven't been afraid of in other regions of the world. We have been, I think, somewhat previously in the Middle East. So I congratulate you on that.

And also for your recent moves on the peace within the Middle East, the issue of right of return, which is very sensitive, but it was a bold move that was taken, and I think it also recognizes a reality, along with this is the first president to recognize talk about an independent Palestinian state. No previous president has ever mentioned that.

Those are extraordinarily bold moves that I think do recognize current realities in moving forward. I've got a bill in, one that I'm presenting, that I think, as we move forward on that track, we ought to recognize realities in Jerusalem, too. But I recognize that's a little ways off.

I want to implore you-and I know the administration wants to stay with this-to stay with the June 30 deadline of handing over control, civilian control, to an Iraqi governance.

I was actually on the side of handing over to some form of Iraqi governance much earlier than we have even with this deadline, recognizing that's difficult. But we've just got to get Iraqis in control. And, as in Afghanistan, it's not a perfect model of democracy. When Karzai first arose, it wasn't from a popular election across the country, but it was an Afghan running Afghanistan.

And so with the chain of command, which Secretary Wolfowitz spoke about the other day, it's important that when Iraqi security officers are responding, it's to an Iraqi that's on top of it, not to some American officer. And I think that should really help out substantially, in the views of Iraqis, towards their own country and getting us out of being an occupier, which they don't like and we're not comfortable with. And so I applaud you on those moves and I urge you forward.

Two quick suggestions I'd like to make, if I could. One, I met with soldiers at Fort Riley this last week on break that had been in Iraq and had just gotten back from Iraq 30 days earlier; I think about 300. We did a closed town-hall meeting. It was a wonderful visit with them.

They were very enthusiastic about the work that they have done. They think that what they are doing is worthwhile and is important, and I absolutely agree. And we don't ever want to back away from them. Many of them will be turning around and going back within less than a year, and they know that. And that's fine. They believe in this work and they know that it's the right thing to do.

I did ask about the Iraqi military and the Iraqi police. I said, "How are they?" And most of them laughed; the soldiers did. And I said, "Well, what is the issue here?" And they almost-the ones that were speaking up on this were talking about Iraqi command and commanders and the need to bring back trained Iraqi commanders that the Iraqi military people won't respond to a U.S. military commander the way they will to an Iraqi military commander. And I know you're considering and reviewing this issue now.

But from the guys on the ground, they view it that they need to bring back guys that were trained by Iraqis, that were years invested as Iraqi commanders, and they can't be Ba'athists. And I'm not sure how you ferret out who's good and who isn't. And I've been pushing for some period of time that we need to get security control of Iraqis, and one of those that's responsible maybe for pushing this too hard, too fast. It is only so fast you can ride this horse, even though we all desire it. But they were sure pushing the issue of bringing back currently-trained Iraqi commanders.

And the question I have for you is about Iran. And maybe you've already answered this at one point in time. What are we seeing actually taking place in Iraq sponsored by Iranians? Lots of allegations regarding Sadr's group being sponsored by the Iranians. It looks to me the Iranians are a group in the region that are the most directly impacted by us establishing democracy in Iraq. I think the whole region is, but the Iranians want a theocracy in Iraq, too, as they have in Iran. And it's very threatening to them and to their future stability if we're successful and when we're successful.

What are you directly seeing on the ground of Iranian influence-funding, command and control, if you can say, from Iran in Iraq? And I'm going to listen to the first part of your comments, and then if you need to go further, I'm going to have to go over and vote. But I do want to get that out there and ask you about it.

MR. GROSSMAN: Yes, sir. Let me work backwards, then, since you have to leave. First, I appreciate what you say about our family again. I appreciate that.

On Iran, I think the best thing for me to do-the way to give you the most complete answer, if I could, is to give you a classified answer. The unclassified part of it is I can tell you that we are concerned about Iranian activities. We've sent messages to Iran about their activities. We believe that if they think about this in the right way, they will recognize, as we do, that a stable and sensible Iraq actually is in their interest and that that ought to be something that they will come to.

We talk to them through the Swiss. We talk to them in other ways, and we've tried to make that clear. But on the specifics of kind of where they are, what they do, finances, I hope you'll allow me to respond to you in another way on that.

SEN. BROWNBACK: We'll do that. Mr. Chairman, I'm going to run over and vote, as I should. But you are doing a very difficult thing, but it's very, very important. And I don't think the stakes could be any higher. And undoubtedly things could be different and better in some situations, but I think your overall push has been really good. And I commend you and the troops for what's taking place.

MR. GROSSMAN: I appreciate that. Thank you.