Hearing of the House Judiciary Committee - Oversight Hearing on the Federal Bureau of Investigation
Interview
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REP. TAMMY BALDWIN (D-WI): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And thank you, Director Mueller, for your time today.
I have -- hopefully I'll have time to get to two distinct lines of questioning, both regarding issues of great interest to my constituents in my home state of Wisconsin.
As you know, our committee has spent considerable time looking into the termination of the nine U.S. attorneys and the question of politically motivated prosecutions. One such prosecution occurred in the state of Wisconsin, and I assume that you are aware that a public servant, Ms. Georgia Thompson, was wrongfully sent to a federal prison amidst serious allegations that political considerations may have influenced the exercise of prosecutorial power.
As you recall, when Ms. Thompson's conviction was overturned, the appeals court released her immediately upon ruling on the case, calling the evidence "beyond thin." And the state of Wisconsin is taking the very unusual move of repaying all of her legal fees and expenses.
Now, we know that the FBI was involved in investigating the Georgia Thompson case because Special Agent Terry Sparacino testified during her trial that he had found, and I quote, he had "found no evidence during his investigation to support the prosecution's contention of wrongdoing."
Now, did the FBI agents who were involved in the investigation of this case ever consult you directly or indirectly via the superiors to discuss their concerns about the investigation or the prosecution, despite what they were uncovering or not uncovering during their investigation?
MR. MUELLER: I'm not familiar with the facts that you indicate, but no, I was not consulted in --
REP. BALDWIN: You were never involved in -- okay. Thank you.
The other line of questioning I want to pursue relates to some concerns that have been raised in my district by constituents. I have a very politically active district. People vote in high numbers, communicate with their elected officials, and sometimes protest or demonstrate when they are unhappy with governmental policies -- sit- ins, marchings and demonstrations.
Recent news reports that anti-war protestors have been added to the watch list and have been denied entry into Canada, for example, have -- these news reports have been read and discussed among folks in my constituency. And I'm hearing concerns about how decisions are made.
So I thought I would just ask you a series of questions about the terrorist screening database and the watch list. First of all, can you tell me anything about what the criteria are for your -- for the FBI nominating somebody to that list?
MR. MUELLER: Well, there are a number of criteria. We would have to get that to you. But I will say that we are very careful not to focus on individuals who are exercising their First Amendment rights as a protestor to in any way inhibit that or utilize that as a reason to open an investigation. We are very careful about that. We understand the sensitivity of that.
Where that crosses the line in terms of damage or violence and the like, then we have, quite obviously, a responsibility to follow up. But we are very sensitive to that line. And we would -- in my mind, none of the criteria applicable to the terrorist screening center would allow a person to be put on that list purely for exercising their First Amendment right --
REP. BALDWIN: As I understand --
MR. MUELLER: -- to protest.
REP. BALDWIN: -- the news reports, that the individuals who were denied entry into Canada, for example, for being involved, or being on the watch list had been convicted of misdemeanors but in completely nonviolence contexts. For example, sit-in and not removing -- or not leaving some place voluntarily, and so being arrested as they were leaving.
Is there a way that a person can inquire whether they are on a list and appeal their presence on the list if they feel that there has been an improper placement on the list?
MR. MUELLER: There is an office where you can make the request. They may or may not -- they probably will not tell you if you're on the list. And I'm not certain what response they give, but you can -- it will be pursued.
REP. BALDWIN: Do you know --
MR. MUELLER: And if -- I might also say, it may not be the terrorist watch list that they're on. It may be some other reason that they've been barred from going to Canada.
REP. BALDWIN: This -- the news reports we heard was specifically that they were on the watch list.
How many people are on the watch list?
MR. MUELLER: And that's something I can't give in open session.
REP. BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. MUELLER: It also differs, I might say, because there are a number of names, different records, as opposed to individuals. I mean, one individual can have five, 10, or 15 different aliases and identifiers. So -- but it's not something I can give in open session.
REP. BALDWIN: And the watch list is shared with foreign governments.
MR. MUELLER: Upon occasion, yes, pursuant to agreements.
REP. BALDWIN: Okay. Do we know how many such agreements exist --
MR. MUELLER: Yes.
REP. BALDWIN: -- in terms of --
MR. MUELLER: It's, again, something that is not -- I can't speak to in open session.
REP. BALDWIN: All right. Well, we'll have to pursue this in a time that we can exchange information more readily.
Thank you.
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