NPR All Things Considered - Transcript

National Public Radio (NPR)

SHOW: All Things Considered

HEADLINE: Senator John McCain on the need for more troops in Iraq

ANCHORS: MELISSA BLOCK

BODY:
MELISSA BLOCK, host:

Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, joins us now. He's been vocal in calling for an increased US military presence in Iraq.

Thanks for being with us.

Senator JOHN McCAIN (Republican, Arizona): Thank you.

BLOCK: You called last week for another full division to be deployed in Iraq. How many troops are you talking about, and where do you think they should go?

Sen. McCAIN: First of all, when I came back from a visit to Iraq in August, I said we needed more troops, and things were relatively quiet at that time. And I said it because of the many people I talked to that informed me that they were concerned about a rising level of attacks on American troops, wounding and deaths. And that trend line has continued up. We need thousands more, several thousand more, Special Forces, Marines, counterintelligence, linguists, civil affairs-type personnel. We don't need more tanks, we don't need more howitzers, but we need far better intelligence capability, and that means in the thousands of troops.

BLOCK: And what kind of reception-you've met with the secretary of Defense-when you posit this to him, what kind of response do you get?

Sen. McCAIN: He said, as he said to me in August when I first made this strong recommendation, that the commanders on the ground say they don't need more troops, and that's an opinion that I value highly. But I value more highly the hard facts on the ground, which are a steady increase in attacks, wounding and deaths of American soldiers.

BLOCK: We've seen a focus of attacks within the Sunni triangle, but lately that's been expanding. We just heard from Peter Kenyon about an increase in attacks in the north of the country in Mosul. There was the attack yesterday in the south on the Italian military command there. This doesn't seem to be contained, and I just wonder where this would stop if you start bringing in more troops. That's a pretty open-ended equation.

Sen. McCAIN: Well, if you don't stop the-reduce the number of attacks, then they will increase, as they have been steadily increasing, and sooner or later they would go outside of the Sunni triangle. The Sunni triangle, so-called, is the area that hasn't been addressed sufficiently, and if addressed, I think would have a beneficial effect in other parts of the country. But I think it's obvious that if you don't stop it where it is bred then it'll eventually spread over the entire country.

BLOCK: There's, obviously, a domestic side to this equation, too. How do you sell to the American public the notion that you think we need more troops in a conflict that's proved to be quite unpopular and is getting more and more deadly?

Sen. McCAIN: Well, again, I guess it depends on your point of view. The poll I saw yesterday, 64 percent of the American people still think we did the right thing in Iraq, and they need to be told that this is tough and that it's going to be difficult, but the consequences of failure and the benefits of success are enormous. And I believe when told what the facts are, the American people will strongly support doing whatever is necessary. What I believe would erode their support is what seems to them a gradually deteriorating situation where the prospects for eventual success are dimmed.

BLOCK: This, of course, coincides with an election year. How much of a part do you think politics are playing as these decisions are made?

Sen. McCAIN: I think that it is unreasonable to announce a troop withdrawal at the same time when the trend lines are in the wrong direction as far as wounding and killing of American soldiers are concerned, and I hope that that is reversed. In 1968, an election year, the North Vietnamese orchestrated the Tet offensive, which-in order to affect our elections. And again in 1972, there was an uprising in order to affect our elections. I'm very nervous about next February, March and April.

BLOCK: But if you are running for election, or re-election in the case of the president, can you balance that, do you think, at the same time asking for a greater deployment in Iraq?

Sen. McCAIN: I have not the slightest doubt that the American people who support what we did in Iraq will support the president if he tells them exactly what we have to do to win.

BLOCK: When you spoke last week at the Council on Foreign Relations, you said this: 'The US can and must win in Iraq.' And I would like to ask you what you consider to be winning in Iraq, and can that be accomplished, do you think, without the capture or killing of Saddam Hussein?

Sen. McCAIN: Well, I think it's absolutely critical that we capture or kill Saddam Hussein. He has become a symbol, obviously, and perhaps more than that. But the measure of victory is easy. It's a country that governs themselves, which I believe ought to be accelerated, that has a safe and secure environment. That safe and secure environment can only be provided by United States troops, not by half-trained Iraqi troops.

BLOCK: Senator McCain, thanks very much.

Sen. McCAIN: Thank you very much.

BLOCK: Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, is the senior member on the Senate Armed Services Committee.