CNN Larry King Live - Transcript

CNN LARRY KING LIVE - Transcript

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KING: We welcome now to LARRY KING LIVE in Washington, Senator John Warner, Republican of Virginia, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee; in Santa Fe, New Mexico, Governor Bill Richardson, the Democratic governor of New Mexico and former Ambassador to the U.N.; and returning from Jerusalem, Christiane Amanpour, CNN's Chief International Correspondent; and in Beirut, Michael Ware, CNN Correspondent, has covered the region for years.

Senator Warner, is the United States right in this war or words about a ceasefire?

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: Larry, I think the secretary of state said an urgent ceasefire, one that's sustainable. It makes no good sense to provide for some cessation of the fighting unless you can predict the reasonable future that it will not resume.

But I'm gravely concerned about this situation, Larry. It is quite serious, as I think my good friend and colleague John McCain stated and, indeed, your entry piece on the news.

We see the whole world focusing on the loss of life on both the side of Israel and Lebanon and the damage that's being done and the hardening of views. John McCain mentioned that first time in history the Arab world, certain portions of it have indicated their lack of respect in any way for what Hezbollah has done. But, on the other hand, how can we sustain that if this war continues to cause the damage and loss of life as its doing?

I think frankly, Larry, if I may say, the Israeli intelligence made incorrect evidence as to the capabilities of Hezbollah, quite apart from the rockets, the tunnels, the storage places, their ground positions and the difficulty that the brave Israeli forces are now encountering in trying to root them out.

KING: Governor Richardson, what's your read on the ceasefire thing?

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Well, there I agree with Secretary Rice. You can't have a cessation of hostilities unless there's a framework in place, unless there's guidelines and benchmarks on what both sides are going to do and unless there's going to be an international peacekeeping force.

Where I disagree with the approach is, one, we need a permanent Middle East envoy or Secretary Rice should stay in the region, like Henry Kissinger used to do. Secondly, I believe it's important that we really get our allies.

Here's where we have to do aggressive international coalition building, a U.N. resolution that involves a peacekeeping force of Muslim countries, Turkey, Morocco, Egypt, Italy, France, others to step up and be part of this force.

Lastly, I do think you have to deal with Syria. How can you disarm Hezbollah? How can you control their supply lines without dealing with Syria? Now that doesn't mean it should be immediate with Secretary Rice but they have to be plugged in to an overall settlement because we have diplomatic relations with Syria. The relationship is not good but it doesn't make sense to try to fashion a settlement without all the major actors.

Iran is another story. I believe you have to deal with them differently. But with Syria they're directly engaged and I do believe we have to move in rapidly. Unless there is aggressive diplomacy this situation is going to deteriorate to the point where you can't put it back together.

It's reached the point where the U.N., I believe, mistakenly is saying that Israel killed some peacekeepers deliberately. That's just tension. That is so incorrect and wrong. Why would Israel want to do it?

But it's a response to the huge, huge suspicions there and the increased tension and the killings and the humanitarian disaster. So, I think the U.S. is the major player there, Larry, and we have to get engaged every day directly at the highest level.

KING: Christiane, anything new about the international peacekeeping force? What does Israel want there if anything?

AMANPOUR: Well, actually no because it's going to take several weeks, according to diplomatic sources to actually hammer out what this mandate is, what the configuration would be, the mission, et cetera. And, of course, who would be the troop contributing nations?

You just mentioned, Governor Richardson just mentioned the issue of what happened yesterday when four U.N. peacekeepers were killed and this was at a long time observation post, since 1948 it had been there. And the U.N. had called ten times during that day to warn about the increasingly close missile fire from the air.

But the point of that is the U.N. sources tell me that that is going to have a chilling effect on some of the contributing nations, the potential contributing nations because they need to know that when they come in they're not going to be targeted, mistakenly or otherwise, by any side and that there must be some way to get in.

But it's a little bit of the chicken and the egg situation because on the one hand we say we need the peacekeeping force for the ceasefire and, on the other hand, the military, the Israeli military we've been talking to says they can't ceasefire until we have the peacekeeping force. So, it's a bit of a conundrum here.

KING: Michael Ware in Beirut, how long can Hezbollah sustain attacks?

WARE: Well that's a very good question, Larry. Certainly at this point there's absolutely no hint that Hezbollah is tiring or that its capability to launch offensive operations has really been dampened.

I mean we've heard the Israeli Defense Force say that the aim of these operations is to cripple that very capability from Hezbollah but talking to politicians from its political faction, talking to some of its members of its more militant organization, their morale seems very high. Their organization, their infrastructure seems very much intact.

And you look at the role that Hezbollah has played here in the security dynamic of Lebanon. Even Lebanese Army generals, defense analysts, former members of the U.N. peacekeeping forces of the past say that essentially the Lebanese Army it's a matter of wide consensus, could not possibly hope to defend Israel -- excuse me to defend Lebanon against Israel.

So the defense of the country is being contracted out to Hezbollah, an insurgent group that is much better equipped to handle the kind of assault that Israel can launch. If the Lebanese Army has tried to stand toe-to-toe with Israel, Hezbollah says they wouldn't last a day. One former general said they wouldn't last an hour.

KING: I got it. Thanks, Michael, Michael Ware in Beirut, Christiane Amanpour in Jerusalem.

We'll come back with Senator Warner and Governor Richardson right after this.

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KING: Before we have some more moments with Senator Warner and Governor Richardson, here's the late headlines.

A bloody day for Israeli troops. At least nine are killed fighting Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon. Israel strikes a ten-story building in Tyre. Hezbollah fires more than 100 rockets into northern Israel.

Still no cease-fire. At the peace conference in Rome Secretary of State Rice says any cease-fire needs to be sustainable. And 12 Palestinians are killed in an Israeli operation in Gaza.

Senator Warner, I know you've been critical at times of all of this. Where's it going, in your opinion? What's going to happen?

WARNER: I don't know any of us can make a sound decision now. But I want to add another dimension to this thing. You cannot look at this situation, tragic as it is, in Israel and Lebanon and Gaza and Palestine, without thinking about the American forces bravely fighting the terrorists in Baghdad tonight and elsewhere in Iraq. I'm concerned about those GIs because this situation could spill over and incite more force being used against our troops there and our coalition partners. And that's very serious.

We have an enormous, enormous sacrifice of life, of limb, of fortunes, of money spent in Iraq to try to get that government to where it is today. And I spent three sessions with Prime Minister Maliki today. I think he handled himself quite well. It was a good visit. But time and time again I came up with the concern that I have, that this tragic situation elsewhere, in Lebanon and Israel could incite more wrath against our troops and could tip that fragile balance of that government in Iraq trying to get on its feet and govern its nation.

KING: That government, Governor Richardson, which we helped establish and became a democracy to Iraq, that government does not support our position vis-a-vis Israel, doesn't it? So does Senator Warner have a point?

RICHARDSON: Well, Senator Warner does make a good point, that the conflagration in the Middle East could adversely affect the security of our troops and Americans traveling there. He makes a good point. I would turn around a little bit what he said, which was very eloquent, that right now our obsession with the situation in Iraq, our huge commitment of troops, resources, policy makers thinking about it, has cost us that we've not focused on the real threats to our country, international terrorism, nuclear proliferation, the situation in the Middle East, the need for more resources in Afghanistan, North Korea, the relationship with Iran. So what we need right now is aggressive, dramatically strong diplomacy led by the United States to stop some of this killing and bring a peace process in the Middle East.

I agree with the position of Secretary Rice of separating the cessation of, of keeping the cessation of hostilities linked with a framework. But it's going to reach a point where we've got to try something new. And what I think the new element here is an overall peace effort led by the United States, a special envoy or Secretary Rice, and a discussion with Syria. You can't have Syria out of this. Eventually Iran but I think that's another step. Israel is our friend. The longer this goes the more Israel is going to be hurt. Not just militarily but you don't want an angry region at Israel simmering at every occasion.

KING: We will be back, and both of you gentlemen will be coming back with us frequently, we hope, as we hope this winds down. Senator John Warner and Governor Bill Richardson, we thank you both. When we come back, Sanjay Gupta, who today visited the largest hospital in Haifa. And we'll be back with Sanjay and a sad story along with him. Don't go away.

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