CNN Larry King Live - Transcript
CNN Larry King Live - Transcript
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, have President Bush and his party become a house divided? Republicans from across the political spectrum speak out on why conservatives in the GOP-controlled Congress have turned against President Bush on some key issues and what he can do about it.
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
An important show tonight, lots of panelists in the first half hour, and then more -- different panelists in the second half hour; let's meet the first half hour guests.
They are Congressman Chris Shays, Republican of Connecticut, in his tenth term. He's chairman of the Government Reform Subcommittee on National Security. He's in Washington.
Also in Washington, Ed Gillespie, GOP strategist, and former chairman of the Republican National Committee.
In Washington is Representative Marsha Blackburn, Republican of Tennessee, she's in her second term, an assistant majority whip in the House leadership.
Georgette Mosbacher is here with us here in New York, president and CEO of Borgasi (ph) Cosmetics. She's a legendary Republican fundraiser and former Republican National Committeewoman from New York. She also served as co-chair of the RNC's Finance Committee.
And, in Washington our expert John Roberts, CNN's Senior National Correspondent.
We'll start with Chris Shays. Simply put what's wrong?
REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: Well, we're a party that had to find a new majority leader. We're a party that's dealing with a president that's wrestling right now with some leadership issues. We have the war in Iraq. We have obviously energy issues and so on. And, in spite of that, we got a great economy that no one seems to be paying any attention to.
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KING: Former House speaker, Chris Shays, Newt Gingrich says the Republican majority is in grave danger, do you agree?
SHAYS: Oh, absolutely. We're in grave danger for a variety of reasons but one of them is there's an ethics issue here and I think that our side of the aisle doesn't get it. I honestly think we came to change Washington. I think Washington has changed too many in Washington. So, we're not the reformers that we set out to be and we need to regain that.
The thing that bound moderates and conservatives together was we believed in personal responsibility. Welfare reform helped us tie together. We wanted to slow the growth of spending. But we also cared strongly about ethics. That was a huge issue.
Let me just say that I think the thing that has hurt the president most is not Iraq. It's Katrina. People saw an arrogant but confident administration but when they saw Katrina they saw arrogance and frankly incompetence and that was very unsettling.
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KING: Congressman Shays is back from voting on the Hill. What did you think of the immigration speech?
SHAYS: Well, I mean I think the president was showing leadership. The bottom line is Marsha and I are closer to moderate and conservative than I think most people believe. All my constituents want us to do our primary job, which is to enforce the law and defend our borders.
So, I mean we have I think real unanimity on that issue. The real issue is what do you do with the folks that are here and do you loosen up legal immigration? And I would say most people in my district want greater immigration. The folks that are here I'm not sure they should be on a path to citizenship but they should be allowed to work here with a Social Security card that actually is foolproof.
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KING: Congressman Shays, the latest "Washington Post"/ABC News poll shows that Bush's disapproval rating among Republicans has nearly doubled in one month, up from 16 percent to 30 percent. What do you make of that?
SHAYS: Well I make out that he's not all that popular right now. But when I'm listening to this debate, we're mixing two things up. There's an issue of disagreement within the Republican Congress and an issue of disagreement with the president.
My constituents are saying, "Maybe you need Democrats to oversee a Republicans to oversee a Democratic president." I think one of our big failings is we haven't been doing the proper oversight. Our job is not to put our arms around the president, pat him on the back all the time.
Our job, as a separate branch, is to fight for the things that we feel strongly about. So if we disagree with him on immigration, I don't think that's a bad thing at all. The problem is, what do we do within our conference? And there we have some problems. What gets Marsha elected in her district is not what's going to get me elected. And the problem I want to make is that the conservatives don't have the tough congressional races.
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KING: But, Chris, where do the Democrats go with it? Very few Democrats are calling for a pullout from Iraq. So what do they do with the issue?
SHAYS: Well, they just keep hoping, from a political standpoint, that it doesn't go well for the president and doesn't go well for the country. I mean, that's kind of the conundrum they're in. If the war goes better, obviously it helps.
But when it comes to the war, the president just has to do the right thing. He made early mistakes in the beginning, disbanding the army, the police and the border patrol, but I mean, Iraqis are pulling themselves out. And my big fear with the war in Iraq is not that we're going to lose it in Iraq, but we're going to lose it here at home.
But the thing that bothers me the most in this whole dialogue that we've been having, Larry, is talking about these social issues, you know what, intelligent design, Terri Schiavo, all those things derailed us. And people said, what about the big issues? You're eating grapes while Rome is burning. What about immigration? What about energy? What about these issues? And the president needs to focus on these as if politics does not matter.
KING: Congressman King, what's Iraq's affect on your district?
KING: Let me, first of all, say I agree fully with Chris Shays. I've been to Iraq a number of times myself. Every war is difficult. Mistakes are always made. But the bottom line is, the president did the right thing, and he has tremendous political courage in sticking this out.
Harry Truman received a lot of flak for what he did in Korea. His numbers went down to 21 percent. History has proven him to be a great president.
In my district, people supported the president going in. Obviously, no one wants to see the deaths we see on television at night. On the other hand, they don't want us to pull out either.
So this is tough for us politically, it's obviously tougher for the families who lose family members over there. But the bottom line is, this is when presidents are tested.
The president's passing his test. We have to stick it out, or it will be a disaster if we pull out. And the Democrats have no alternative.
KING: We'll be back with more of our panel. Let's check in now with Anderson Cooper, who is, once again, down -- you're on the beach, Anderson. What's up?
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KING: Rick Scarborough says that the president has let him down on social issues. Do you agree, Congressman Shays?
SHAYS: This conversation scares the hell out of me. A president has to lead from the center. He's got to reach out to everyone. You know, if he's going to be more conservative and focus on social issues, he's just basically telling my district he doesn't care about them. Forty-two percent of the American people were purple. They weren't red, they weren't blue. The reds and blues are down in the thirties. What good do I see if he increases his popularity by gaining conservatives when he's not uniting the country?
KING: Rick Scarborough, do you want to respond?
SCARBOROUGH: It was conservatives that put him in office. Yes, I certainly do. We're seeing a clear illustration of why the president's polling numbers are going down. The folks that mobilize, the people I'm closest to were mobilized because of speeches that said I'm going to stop judicial tyranny and I'm going to work to make sure that marriage is protected. Congressmen like Congressman Shays and others who are dragging this president back to the center are literally destroying his presidency. His numbers will jump to 40 percent or 50 percent tomorrow if he engages on the social issues that he ran for the presidency on. I happen to love the president.
KING: We'll take a break and come back with more moments and we'll be back with more moments with this panel on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
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KING: Congressman Shays, you have 30 seconds. Are you optimistic about your party?
SHAYS: The jury's still out. I mean, we have to demonstrate that we've earned the right to continue to lead. And it will depend on whether we deal with ethics and whether we deal with other issues that are confronting us and deal with them not as a political issue, but just do what's right.
KING: Thank you all very much. Congressman Chris Shays, Congressman Peter King, David Gergen, Pastor Rick Scarborough and Jonah Goldberg, as well as our panelists earlier.
I don't often toot my own horn here, but I've got a new book out that I hope you look at. It's called "My Dad & Me." It's a heartwarming collection of stories about fathers from a host of friends of mine, including Helen Gurley Brown and President George H.W. Bush and Bill Gates and Marlo Thomas and Donald Trump. As we approach Father's Day, it might be an interesting idea to take a look at this. A fascinating look at what people think and remember about their fathers. By the way, the proceeds go to the Larry King Cardiac Foundation.
Tomorrow night, Paula Abdul of "American Idol" fame will be aboard. Paula Abdul tomorrow with your phone calls. And don't forget next Wednesday, Senator John McCain; next Thursday, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, both on for the full hour. Tim Russert will join us on Tuesday.
Right now let's turn our attention, and there he is, out by the sea, with lots of big stories tonight, including an amazing story about a killing at the border. Here is Anderson Cooper, the host of "A.C. 360." Anderson?
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