The Situation Room: One-On-One With Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin
Interview
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Well, first of all, just a word on the summit, Wolf, this was a historic summit, as you know. We expanded NATO. At the beginning, Putin thought that he could fracture NATO and divide us. NATO has actually gotten bigger. It was a real pleasure to welcome Finland to the table, and, as you know, we announced Sweden coming on board as well.
We got support for our regional plans, and these are the most -- you know, the biggest change in terms of our plans since the cold war. And the most important thing is that countries have committed to providing the resources to support those plans, which requires that they invest more in their defense, and so we saw broad support for countries investing 2 percent of their GDP in defense spending, and that's really, really important. So, this was historic. And a lot of great things accomplished.
In terms of what we're -- what the president is committed to helping Ukraine with, as you know, we work very, very hard to make sure Ukraine has what it needs to be successful. You know that I, every month, we pull together what we call Ukraine defense contact group, 50 countries from around the world that get together every month to focus on Ukraine's needs.
But what we have to do going forward is to make sure that they have a capability to defend themselves for the long-term and also to deter aggression. So, that means investing in the force to be able to do that, land forces, air forces, and naval forces. And so that work is ongoing.
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Wolf, I think we have to remember that President Zelenskyy is in a fight. He has been in a fight for well over a year. And as he entered the picture here at the summit, it was fascinating to sit in the room and watch as 31 countries assured him, one after another, that he was going to be a member of NATO, and that we're going to -- they're going to support him for as long as it takes.
And sitting in the room and observing that was really special, and I have to believe that that has an effect on President Zelenskyy. Plus, at the end of this, we saw the commitment by the G7, which I think sends a powerful signal to President Putin that countries are going to support Ukraine for as long as it takes. And this is not -- we won't be finished next week or next month. They will be there for as long as it takes.
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Well, there are a number of things that will have to be done, as you know. A big part of their inventory is legacy equipment. And so in terms of training and equipping, there's work to be done, but we're doing that work as we're helping them as they fight this war. And so things have been done up to this point. There's more that will need to be done to ensure that they have a full complement of capability.
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I have no doubt that that will happen. And we heard just about every -- we heard all of the countries in the room say as much, and I think that was reassuring to President Zelenskyy. But there are other things that have to happen as well, you know, judicial reform, you know, things that make sure that the democracy is in good shape. And so those things will take place over time.
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I won't speculate on that, Wolf. I'll just say that all of the countries that I have witnessed are interested in moving as quickly as possible.
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I think it will be 32 by that time.
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Right. But I do believe everyone wants Ukraine to be on board.
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Well, I'm sure Putin is very concerned. This is probably something that he didn't expect to happen, although President Biden warned him of this at the very beginning. But, you know, he's brought NATO closer to his doorstep. And so, you know, if you were him, you'd certainly be concerned about what you're seeing.
But countries like Sweden and Finland bring a lot to the alliance, and we're happy to have them on board. And I was just in Sweden a couple of weeks ago. I got a chance to speak with the Minister of Defense and visit some of their troops, look at their capabilities. They will bring value to the alliance right away. And it's a strong democracy, Wolf, and that's really the most important point.
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Well, thanks, Wolf. This is a national security issue. We just talked about when we sat down a couple of minutes ago, what a complex environment this is, you know, around the world quite frankly. We see the tough things that we're dealing with here in Europe as we continue to provide support to Ukraine and its efforts defend its sovereign territory. We're working hard to make sure we keep the right balance in the Indo-Pacific and strengthen our alliances. And we need leaders to be able to do that.
This is a national security issue. It's a readiness issue. And we shouldn't kid ourselves. I think any member of the Senate Armed Services Committee knows that.
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I will, Wolf. I certainly will continue to engage.
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It was in March, end of March, but, yes, I'll engage.
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He needs to lift the holds, Wolf. This is a national security issue, it's a readiness issue.
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Wolf, we have a policy that enables our troops to get access to non-covered reproductive health care. And I think that's an important policy. I think our troops don't get to choose where they're assigned, and, certainly, we want to make sure that our troops are not disadvantaged because they serve in the military. They have the ability to have access to non-covered reproductive health care.
One in five of my troops, Wolf, is a woman. And our women are -- I mean, they provide tremendous value to this force. I'm proud of them, and I think we need to do everything we can to take care of them.
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That's our policy, Wolf.
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To get non-covered reproductive health care. I don't have an abortion policy. I have an access to non-government reproductive health care policy.
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This is an artillery-intensive fight, Wolf. We've seen large amounts of artillery being deployed on both sides of the fence. And so that puts a strain on the international supply of munitions, artillery munitions. And so in order to -- and what we did early on was we engaged our industrial base and asked them to expand their capacity, and also the international industrial base we've worked with other countries to do the same.
We have what we need and we'll continue to have what we need to support our plans in the United States of America. But we want it make sure Ukraine has what it needs to be able to continue the fight. While that expansion is taking place, these cluster munitions act as kind of a bridging capability. And so we want them to be able to continue to keep pressure on the enemy throughout and support their maneuver plans. And so that's why the president made this deliberate decision to provide this.
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I do.
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I do, Wolf. I know how these munitions work. I've actually used them in combat.
The Ukrainians have committed -- first of all, I think we should remember that they are fighting hard to defend their sovereign territory. You know, they're not asking for the munitions to go invade another country, as the Russians did. They have been using cluster munitions from the very beginning, Wolf, as you know. And their munitions have a dud rate of 40 to 50 percent, which is quite remarkable.
But Ukrainians have committed to in writing to make sure these munitions are only in the appropriate places, not used against population centers. They will record the places that they use them, and they will prioritize de-mining efforts, and we'll help them do that in those places where they have used these munitions.
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We want to make sure that Ukraine can remain successful in their fight, Wolf. And so, you know, I won't speculate as to how long that's going to take. We're going to stay focused on making sure that they have what they need to continue to provide the support for their maneuver. And so that's where we have been from the very beginning, and we'll stay focused on.
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Clearing the mine fields, Wolf, has been their biggest challenge to-date. And they're doing -- they've undertaken a very deliberate process in doing that, so that they can conserve manpower. They still have a lot of capability left in terms of forces available, but clearing the mine fields is what presented them the greatest challenge thus far.
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I'll let the Ukrainians speak to provide their own assessment of how things are going. But, again, they continue to press.
We knew, by the way, from the very beginning that this would be a very tough fight. You've heard me say that, Wolf. You've heard General Milley say that, and it will continue to be a tough fight. And they will -- as they clear these mine fields, they'll take a very deliberate approach to this, and once they have that done, and they have a lot of forces available that they can maneuver.
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Well, we've got to get to -- as you know, this involves a number of steps. First of all, you have to get the pilots trained, and The Netherlands and Denmark are leading that effort. A number of other countries have joined in on that consortium. But they're also looking at, as they do that, we know that we have to have a maintenance capability, so they're also training maintainers as well. And there's sustainment that goes along with it. And then there's improvements to it, to airfields.
And so there are a number of things that have to take place. And this doesn't happen in days. It takes months to bring about that capability.
But, again, Netherlands and Denmark are doing a incredible job, a remarkable job in moving out. They're enlisting the aid of other countries. And they'll provide that capability as quickly as we can.
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I'll let them speak for, you know, the pace of the efforts there.
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But we've got to get the pilots trained first and do some other things as well.
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Well, we're hopeful, certainly hopeful. We have enjoyed bipartisan support for Ukraine throughout, Wolf, and we're hopeful that we'll maintain that support. Ukraine matters. Ukraine matters not just to Ukraine. It matters to the whole world. This is about the rules-based international order. And countries around the world realize that.
And that's why as, you know, we pull together, allies and partners, in a combined effort to work to provide security assistance to Ukraine, that's why we've got so many people that participated from the very beginning, and still participate. This is important to the whole world.
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Well, I think, I don't want to speculate on what he has or doesn't have. I would just say that I think we all believe that he has challenges. He certainly probably didn't expect those kind of challenges. It will be interesting to see how he recovers from this or whether or not he can recover from it in the long-term.
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He's a very resilient person, and I wouldn't put anything past him. But having said that, we're going to stay focused on making sure that Ukraine has what it needs to continue to focus on this fight and be successful.
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I don't. I've been very surprised that he's been able to move in and out of Russia at will. And so we'll see what happens going forward. But I don't know where he is right now.
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Well, Wolf, let me just say up front that I will support any effort to make sure that we're doing the right things to bring war criminals to justice. And so there are a number of ways to do that but that's -- we're going to continue to work with the intel community and others to provide that information.
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Whether or not the United States does that, that's a policy decision that's made by the president.
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Well, whatever the decision the president makes, of course, we'll support that, Wolf.
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Well, we have reached out at multiple levels, Wolf. I think it's -- you've heard me say a number of times, it's really important for countries with our kinds of capability to be able to talk to each other so that we can manage these relationships.
We don't seek a contentious relationship with China. Our relationship is one of competition. And so I think, you know, as -- as we continue to sail the international seas and fly the international skies, we want to make sure that, you know, that we -- that everyone is doing things in a safe manner, and we certainly are doing things in a safe and unauthorized -- safe and authorized manner.
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Again, you've -- this is something that -- that we always have to be prepared for, Wolf. I've said before that I don't see a confrontation as either imminent or unavoidable. So -- but having said that, it's my job to make sure that we have -- that we continue to maintain a credible deterrent in the Indo-Pacific so we can help to promote a free and open Indo-Pacific.
And, you know, the most credible deterrent is a combat capable force, and that's what we have today and that's what we'll continue to have in the Indo-Pacific.
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Well, it means a lot, Wolf, that we have the ability to have that. And I -- C.Q. Brown is -- was selected by the president, not because -- solely because he's African-American. He's a really, really good officer, and a great fighter pilot, a distinguished pilot.
So I think he's the right guy at the right time for this job. And I think you'll see that he'll add value to everything that we do. So --
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Don't ask me how many years ago, Wolf. Yeah.
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I did, Wolf. I -- that's -- that is really extraordinary. But, again, you know, we both have a lot of experience in this business. And I look forward to working with C.Q., and I applaud President Biden for, you know, his choice of C.Q. Brown.
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You can always come back, Wolf.
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He was one of my mentors, Wolf, and a good friend, and we miss him. But, you know, it was a historic time.
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Well, thanks. Thanks, Wolf.
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