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Interview

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Joining us, Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. He's the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee. He joins us live from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

So, Congressman, you're in Davos with political and economic leaders from around the world. What's the sense that you're getting from them about how they watch this U.S. debt crisis really start to kick in?

REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): Yeah, thanks, Jake. I would say, first and foremost, the situation or war in Ukraine has been the dominant discussion area or theme of this forum, but second to that I would say is not just the debt ceiling, but what is increasingly dysfunction that world leaders or NGOs or basically anyone who is here in Davos has been commenting on. So many people brought up to me, by the way, the 15 rounds and 4 days it took on the vote for speaker.

So we can't just look at the debt ceiling in isolation. It's just one more issue area in which the U.S. specifically the U.S. Congress is looking dysfunctional and sending the wrong message to the rest of the world.

TAPPER: Republicans say they are willing to come to the table to discuss raising the debt ceiling but also want to discuss negotiations to reduce future government spending. And, look, I don't need to tell you, you're the ranking Democrat on the budget committee, the U.S. government spends a lot more money than it takes in. This is a problem. We spend too much money just paying the interest on our debt.

Are you willing to at least sit down and see if there is a deal to be made in any way?

BOYLE: Well, first, let's be clear. The debt ceiling is not about future spending. It's about past spending. Much of which, by the way, happened under a Republican Congress and a Republican president. After all, 25 percent of our entire national debt happened during in the four years that Donald Trump was president.

So there should be no negotiation or question whatsoever about whether or not the United States will pay the bills we already racked up.

In terms of future hypothetical discussion, look, our funding for the next year doesn't kick in yet. We only have government funding through September 30th so obviously every year there are discussions about future spending, they will take place regardless of the debt ceiling issue.

TAPPER: Yeah, I mean I want to read this quote from Trump's Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney.

He told "The Dispatch", the truth of the matter the first two years of the Trump administration when the Republicans had the House and Senate, we raised spending than the last couple years of the Obama administration. So I get it. I hear your point, the point you're making.

But the point I'm making is whether under Bush or Obama or Trump or Biden, we spend more money as a country than we take in. And it is bad for the economy in the long term, not only because of the trillions we owe, but because of how much we have to spend every year just on the interest on that debt.

So I mean do you agree with the idea that this is a problem, that what I just laid out?

BOYLE: Yeah, so first in terms of your premise, I think we should really think hard about that. Let's not forget in 2011, after Republicans took over the Tea Party wave, immediately Congress and then president Obama shifted to deficit and debt. Most mainstream economists believe today that that was premature, that, in fact, the great recession, the recovery from it was actually prolonged.

Now here we are and this is something that's come up here at the World Economic Forum. We may be heading into a recession this year, either in Q3 or Q4. So rather than shifting immediately to deficit and debt, let's actually focus on the current economic conditions today.

Finally, I just have to point out, the deficit has dropped by more than 50 percent in the last two years, the deficit has dropped more under President Biden than any other previous president and final point, this is really the final point, the very first bill Republicans passed taking over Congress two weeks ago was a bill that would have increased the deficit by more than $108 billion. So it's really hard to take them as credible on this issue.

TAPPER: Is it one of the reasons the deficit has gone down so much because the COVID emergency spending isn't happening like it did in 2020 and 2021? Isn't that one of the primary reasons the deficit has gone down so much?

BOYLE: Yeah, I would say there are two reason, first, the fact the deficit went up so much under Trump creates a higher baseline for us.

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The second thing, though, and let's not forget what this administration and Democrats in Congress did, the fact that we were able to recover more quickly than any other country on Earth from the pandemic has absolutely enabled our ability to bring down the deficit and to bring jobs to what is now unemployment at a 50-year low.

TAPPER: What do you say to somebody out there who is watching and says, you know what, I don't have a horse in this fight, I just don't want this economic crisis? It just seems like, you know, yes, Congress should raise the debt ceiling and pay for things that have already been allocated or the money we already owe but also like there's no sense in Democrats and Republicans pretending we're not spending too much money.

BOYLE: Yah, you know, I would say two things to those and, by the way, I have constituents who just want to see the trains run on time and get worried about what they see from Washington.

The first thing I would say and I was glad Mr. McConnell said much the same as what I'm about to say and that is that we will ultimately raise the debt ceiling. I am confident that this will happen. So while it might not be the cleanest process, I do believe ultimately we will raise the debt ceiling, there are still enough responsible people in Washington, D.C. that will get it done.

The second thing I would say, though, is and I'm the author of a piece of legislation called the Debt Ceiling Reform Act. The debt ceiling is ironically an accident of history that was created more than a century ago, believe it or not, to make it easier for the Treasury Department to pay off our debts. It has far outlived its usefulness.

This process is broken and dysfunctional. We need to reform it so that way this becomes the last debt ceiling showdown we ever have to go through.

TAPPER: All right. Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania, inexplicably in Switzerland instead of getting ready for the Eagles game this weekend, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

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