McCain Discusses NATO Split
WOODRUFF: "On the Record Today," Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona, who is back in the United States after attending a security conference in Germany. McCain and fellow Senator Joe Lieberman led a delegation of U.S. lawmakers to that conference over the weekend in Munich. Much of its focus was on the showdown with Iraq.
A few hours ago, Senator McCain sat down with me to talk about the possible war with Iraq. My first question concerned Franco-German opposition to a war and comments by U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that despite that opposition, U.S. plans to move against Iraq if it does not disarm. I asked the senator if he thinks that's the right posture for the U.S.
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MCCAIN: I think it's probably the right thing to do. You have to understand that Mr. Schroeder, the chancellor of Federal Republic of Germany, used an anti-American card to get reelected. Then he continued on that path. The Germans will not engage in any military activity in Iraq. That's clear. The French have been remarkably recalcitrant.
And what I say is both the French and Germans and Belgians have vetoed, for the first time in history of the alliance, a planning for the emplacement of defensive weaponry in Turkey. I mean, that is unheard of. It's so far over the line that we've never seen anything like it. They've made clear their intentions to use whatever means to block our military action in Iraq no matter what we do. So they have to be, I think, treated for what it is, a -- an election ploy on the part of the German leader. And in the case of French, simply kind of classic French misbehavior.
WOODRUFF: Are you saying that what they're doing, France, Germany and Belgium, is doing irreparable damage to the NATO Alliance?
MCCAIN: I don't think so in the case of Germany. The Germans have helped us in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo. The French have tried to through a monkey wrench in everything we do. I think the Belgians will be fine. We'll have to deal with France in some way or another. The Germans, I'm confident, after the Iraqi issue is taken care of, will continue the 60-year partnership and friendship that we've enjoyed.
WOODRUFF: But it sounds like you're saying there could be something more -- there could be something irreparable in terms of the U.S./French relationship?
MCCAIN: I think there could be, but the French will always act solely in their self-interest and I hope they'll find their self- interest to be a contributing part of the Atlantic alliance.
WOODRUFF: Does this public split say about the United Nations? You have a Secretary General, Mr. Annan, saying a matter of Iraqi disarmament is an international question, not something that should be driven by one state, one country.
What does this say about the viability of the U.N.?
MCCAIN: I think that there's a number of questions. One, if any country is allowed to continue to violate Security Council resolutions, then they risk irrelevancy, just as a failure of the old League of Nations to act as regards to be a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) rendered them irrelevant. I think that it's important to recognize that most of the nations of Europe now support us. I think it's important to recognize that if a conflict ensues, we will have cooperation and assistance from many nations including those in the region. I think it was significant that eight countries wrote a letter supporting the United States, thereby changing the equation from the United States being isolated in Europe to the French and the Germans being isolated in Europe.
WOODRUFF: So the U.N. question, what?
MCCAIN: In the United Nations, I believe that we must enforce United Nations Security Council resolutions. This is the 17th. And if the United Nations refuses to enforce those, then the United Nations risks irrelevancy. Not the United States of America.