MSNBC "All In With Chris Hayes" - Transcript: Interview with James Clyburn

Interview

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REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, I think you`ve got to right with chronology. I`m not sure that you hit it right on the subject matter. To me, voting is the top priority whenever we`re talking about politics. Now, that didn`t mean that on the calendar, it will be voted on first. And that`s certainly not the case here.

But voting remains a top priority with us. All the other things are secondary if we can`t get people to the polls.

HAYES: Yes, that -- I mean, part of this has to always comes back to the math in the Senate and reconciliation. I think you`ve been very, I think, astute and compelling on the idea that there are already carve-outs for different things that don`t -- can`t be filibustered, that this should be in that category. I just wonder if you feel like you`ve had more conversations or made any progress with that argument to the -- to the people that will need to agree with you to get to a resolution?

CLYBURN: Well, I think I`ve made progress with a lot of people. I`m not so sure how much progress I`ve made the two people particularly and that`s the two senators who seem to be wedded to the filibuster no matter what. I`m still working with them. And I think I am making progress. We`ll see when the time comes.

HAYES: There was an announcement -- big announcement the house today which is the Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy announcing the five members that will serve on that January 6 Select Committee. It`s notable that three of those members including, you know, Jim Jordan, quite notoriously, that Jim Jordan voted along with three of those members -- to other members voted against Joe Biden being -- electors being seated, voted essentially to overturn the election in line with what Donald Trump wanted and what the mob wanted. I wonder if you think that vote should be disqualifying to sit on that committee.

[20:25:33]

CLYBURN: Well, personally, I would think so. But politically, I can understand what Kevin McCarthy is doing. I do not agree with it. I think we ought to be serious about this. And I`m not too sure how serious some of those people are about where we are in this country and what we need to do to preserve this democracy for our children and grandchildren.

It wouldn`t be a shame for us to inherit such good, long work that`s gone into building this country into what it is today, to allow ourselves to seat into an autocracy, which is what some people see in the wall. That`s not what this country is all of that. And I don`t think that we can be serious about preserving it if you don`t put people on these committees who are serious about finding out what really happened, why it happened, and what we should do about it.

HAYES: Over the weekend, we observe the anniversary of the passing of John Lewis, of course, your colleague and friend for many years, civil rights icon, who you know, was at the forefront of the passage of the Voting Rights Act that finally turned America into a true functioning multiracial democracy, really, for the first time in history. How do you think about his legacy at this very perilous and fraught moment as we`re fighting over whether we`re going to remain a multiracial democracy?

CLYBURN: Well, thank you so much for mentioning that. John Lewis and I first met in October 1960. We became best friends. We had no idea back then that we would end up serving in Congress together. But throughout those years, on voter education, John Lewis ran the Voter Education Project for this entire southern region when I was doing the same thing down in Charleston. So, voting is very, very important to us.

Now, I`ve never made the kind of sacrifices that John made. I practiced non-violence, John internalized nonviolence, and he became the real icon of this movement. And that`s why upon his death, I read the record to the floor and asked for unanimous consent to rename H.R.4 the John R. Lewis Voter Education Act. And we did it.

It wouldn`t be a shame for us to honor him with a ship as we just did over the weekend, to honor him with a likeness that the state of Georgia is going to send up here to the Capitol. All of that, and all the time who has ever really wanted out of life was for people who look like him to have unfettered access to what makes this country what it is.

And it would be a shame for us to go through all of these massive nations and not pass the John R. Lewis Voter Registration and Education Act -- Advancement Act. That`s what we need to be doing. That`s what John Lewis would want more than anything else. Now, I would hope that with everything else, we would do that.

But, see, I do remember that six months after that march over the Edmund Pettus Bridge, which was back in March 1965, the following August, August 6, Lyndon Johnson signed the 1965 Voting Rights Act. And those kind of interests me. Less than a year later, he was unceremoniously ousted out of Smith. And so, these kinds of things I`m used to, but I would hope to be a better body than that in the Congres.

HAYES: I want to thank you for coming on tonight, Congressman. I want to sort of put a pin in and say that the next time you come, on I would love to hear more at extended length about that -- what that 1960 meeting of young James Clapper and young John Lewis was like. So, I`m going to have you back so we could talk about that. Congressman James Clyburn, thank you very much.

CLYBURN: I look forward to it. Thank you.

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