CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript: Interview with Congressman James Clyburn

Interview

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[09:25:00]

HARLOW: So we've just learned that the White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, both he and Nancy Pelosi will talk, they want a stimulus deal, they're saying -- Meadows is saying in the next 48 hours. We'll see. The bottom line though right now is there is still no stimulus deal and Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell is still casting doubt on whether there will be one before election day, and it is the American people who are still suffering. Right now, 8 million more Americans are in poverty than were in March, 41 percent of black homes with children don't have enough to eat.

And in South Carolina, 38 percent of jobs lost from this pandemic have still not returned. South Carolina Congressman and House Majority whip James Clyburn joins me now. I'm glad to have you here. I heard you yesterday on this network with my colleague say, quote, "we're not going to get anything simply because it will be something", right?

We're not going to take anything just because it is something. But are you sure at this point, congressman, that, that is what your constituents want? I mean, just a few days ago, the "Post and Courier" in your district wrote, quote, "Congress' failure to act before the election is cynical and intolerable. Those who are suffering cannot wait for a power struggle to play out in Washington."

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Well, thank you very much for having me. And I think I agree with the "Post and Courier" in this instance. I don't always agree with them and its editorial page, but I do agree in this instance. This is a power play, and it's there in the Senate. It's a power play between the Senate and the White House.

And I think both of us know that Mitch McConnell is playing a very cynical game. So that word applies to McConnell. We've had a deal on the floor for a long time. We passed out of the house the Heroes Act, it's been sitting over there in the Senate forever. We did a second tranche of that, $2.2 trillion bill, it's still sitting over there in the Senate, and we've asked them to come back with some kind of a compromise.

Now, everybody keeps focusing on the top line numbers, and they're saying that you've got $2 trillion, they've come to $1.8 trillion, $1.9 trillion, what's the difference? The difference is in the details. That's where the devil lurks.

You've got $2 trillion. They've come to $1.8 trillion and $1.9 trillion. What's the difference? The difference is in the details. That's where the devil lurks, in those details.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I -- yes. I wish we had more --

CLYBURN: So --

HARLOW: I mean I -- I think all Americans deserve to see many more details right now. And there -- there are just so many question marks.

That said, your message yesterday was that this isn't going to change until the administration changes, if it does, and that's, you know, you hoping that Biden wins, but also you hoping that Democrats take the Senate. And even if all those things line up, we're talking about January 20th, so the end of January, February at the earliest.

For any American out there, the 8 million more who are now in poverty than in March, is your message to them basically you're going to have to wait while we in Congress fight?

CLYBURN: No, I don't think that you have to wait until January. We're going to have a lame duck session. There's going to be a lot of stuff happening in the lame duck. The election is less than two weeks away and I believe we'll be back in Washington a week or two after the elections and we could do something then. At least the elections will be behind us, people will know what their futures are and maybe they will be more apt to sit down and get serious about things after their electoral process -- prospects have been settled.

HARLOW: Well, it's just a sad state then that, you know, relief like this, that both sides think the American people need, they don't agree on the particulars, but, you know, is waiting on an election.

Let me ask you about the former president, Barack Obama, hits the campaign trail today for Joe Biden. And it comes at an interesting time when Joe Biden, yes, has more support from black men than President Trump, but President Trump has about 3 percent more black support from black young men than he did in 2016. That's about 17 percent now, it was 14 percent back then.

Why do you think that is and what should we see, do you think, from President Obama on that front?

CLYBURN: I really don't think that's true. I know what the numbers say. I really don't. I have to look (INAUDIBLE). I talk to a lot of black men and I would tell you that they now have had a big question answered for them. That 10 percent or 13 percent last time, that was all about what do you have to lose? They now know exactly what we have to lose. We have lost lives. We have lost livelihoods. We have lost our health. We have lost our wealth.

Black men are suffering exponentially and they know the answer to that question now. I don't believe that number for one moment.

HARLOW: Where should President Obama go and what should he say?

CLYBURN: Well, I think that President Obama will speak to black males in the way they should be spoken to. I think -- I welcome him to the trail. I really believe that he has tremendous influence in suburbia. He has tremendous influence on the campuses of historical black colleges and universities. There is one, Lincoln University, sitting right there in Pennsylvania. Fine to be in Philadelphia. But I'd love to see him get out there in Oxford, Pennsylvania, at Lincoln University, as well.

HARLOW: All right. So get out of the city, go to the suburbs.

Let's end on this.

If Judge Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed to the Supreme Court this week, if Joe Biden wins the presidential election, do you support a President Biden packing the Supreme Court?

CLYBURN: Well, I think the Supreme Court is being packed now. That I think we should not (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: But -- but more justices. To -- to the question of more justices, adding them, is that -- is that a good idea?

CLYBURN: (INAUDIBLE). Well, adding justices, I think we need to unpack the Supreme Court. There needs to be balance in the Supreme Court. You know, I know what the Supreme Court was like during the Dred Scott decision. I know what the Supreme Court was like during Plessy versus Ferguson. And I think that this court, that we see developing now, is a throwback to Plessy versus Ferguson and even Dred Scott?

HARLOW: You do? You think it goes that --

CLYBURN: Absolutely I do believe that. I have said before and I believe very strongly that the Shelby v. Holder decision that got rid of the Voting Rights Act was the worst decision of the Supreme Court since Dred Scott.

I said that. I believe that very strongly because I know what the vote does for people of color and I know what happened here in South Carolina and other states immediately after that decision when all of these onerous things were done to people's voting rights. That's what's going on right now, a massive suppress the vote effort made possible -- made possible by Holder -- or Shelby v. Holder would not happen but for that Supreme Court decision.

[09:35:03]

HARLOW: Congressman Clyburn, we'll talk more about this when we have you on next. We're out of time. But I appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you.

CLYBURN: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: Of course.

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