CNN "Erin Burnett Outfront" - Transcript: Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) is Interviewed About the Impeachment Trial
Interview
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LANKFORD: Well, I'm recommending to the House or the White House to turn it over, put in one of the scripts here so we can go through it even while it's going through classification process, we can read all of it and see for ourselves if there's anything significant there.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Senator Lankford has suggested making the manuscript available in a classified setting and let senators go read it for themselves. That sounds like a reasonable solution to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:30:07]
BURNETT: OUTFRONT now Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.
And, Senator, I want to get to the idea about the Bolton manuscript and whether senators should be allowed to read it before voting on witnesses in a moment. But, first, the breaking news. Majority Leader McConnell we know is saying he does not have the votes right now to block witnesses.
Based on your count, is that accurate or is he using a scare tactic to motivate his caucus?
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Well, I think it's a little bit of each. I do think there are a lot of Republicans, more than four or five, who are really troubled by the fact that the president is not allowing witnesses and documents. They know that a fair trial needs witnesses and documents and they know also the constituencies across America, the American people, know that these witnesses are President Trump's own people. These are not Democratic plants or anything like that.
On the other hand, you can't underestimate the pressure that Donald Trump, who can be vindictive and nasty when you oppose him and Mitch McConnell who has just become a total Trump -- he executes whatever Trump wants -- will put on these members.
So, I think it's up in the air. Is there a chance that we might get a vote to allow witnesses and documents? Yes. But is it also an uphill fight and I wouldn't do any dances -- joy dances now? Yes, I would not.
BURNETT: So, you've obvious pounded the table that you need those four Republican senators. Do you actually think that when push comes to shove, if you get a yes vote on witnesses, Senator Schumer, that it will be more than four?
SCHUMER: It could be. There are ten to 12 Republicans who have never said a bad word about witnesses or documents who are know in their hearts it's the right thing to do. But they have to weigh that against the pressure, the twisting of arms, that Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell will put on them. So, I think it's up in the air right now.
Are we feeling better today than we did a few days ago? Absolutely. The Bolton revelations are stark. And when Mr. Sekulow gets up and says one of the reasons that you should vote to acquit is we don't have any eyewitness accounts and at the same time the man he's representing, Donald Trump, is preventing those eyewitnesses, they lose a lot of ground.
BURNETT: So, I want to ask you now about the idea I referenced, Senator Lankford proposing letting senators read Bolton's book manuscript. Putting it in a classified room --
SCHUMER: I think it's an absurd idea.
BURNETT: How come?
SCHUMER: First of all, two reasons, why does everything have to be in secret? What part are they afraid? This is going to be a book, 99 percent of it is not classified.
And it's outrageous that Republicans keep going around and suggesting things be done in secret. They're afraid of the truth.
But second, even if the manuscript were read publicly, that is not the same as a live witness swearing an oath and then being asked questions and cross examined. So, we think that that, you know, we're not against it. But it is no substitute. First we would be against doing any of it in secret.
But second even with the full manuscript, it's no substitute for a live witness. That's what we're for.
BURNETT: So, Trump's legal team today, as you well know, they're making two points. On one hand, they're trying to say he didn't do it. On the other, they're saying even if he did all of it, it's not impeachable. That's the Alan Dershowitz argument he's making. Some Senate Republicans said it gave them peace of mind.
So, today, we heard Sekulow echoing it. Here's the argument.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, TRUMP IMPEACHMENT ATTORNEY: Nothing in the Bolton revelations, even if true, would rise to the level of an abuse of power or an impeachable offense.
JAY SEKULOW, OUTSIDE LEGAL COUNSEL FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: If a president, any president, were to have done what "The Times" reported about the content of John Bolton's manuscript, that would not constitute an impeachable offense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUMER: I think they're dead wrong. You know, if you read the history of the founding fathers -- and I remember reading this in high school. One of the things the Founding Fathers were most afraid of was foreign interference in our elections. That is serious, serious stuff. It's one of the worse things a president can do because look at it this way, Erin, if Americans no longer believe that we, the American people, determine who is our president, who is our governor, who is our senator, who is our Congress member, and we think a foreign leader can interfere and jaundice our elections and skew them, we'll lose faith in our whole democracy.
Americans don't want foreigners interfering, and that's what Trump tried to blackmail -- at least if you believe the House manager's strong case -- that's just what Trump tried to do to blackmail Ukraine to interfere in our election. That is one of the highest of crimes and misdemeanors in the eyes of the Founding Fathers.
BURNETT: And that may be, but the argument is tailored to the ten or 12 Republicans you're talking about, right?
SCHUMER: Yes.
BURNETT: Republicans who say, OK, we know the facts.
SCHUMER: OK.
BURNETT: Like Rich Lowry wrote today, right?
[19:35:02]
The well-known conservative columnist.
We know the facts. This gives him an out of saying he did it, but it's not impeachable.
Do you think that will resonate with some moderate Republicans you're targeting?
SCHUMER: Look, if they're looking for an excuse, absolutely. I do think if you read the history, look at what the Founding Fathers said, then the bottom line is this does merit impeachment. They talked about it. Foreign interference in elections is one of the things they talked about in terms of impeachment.
BURNETT: All right. Well, Senator Schumer, I appreciate your time as always, sir. Thank you.
SCHUMER: Thank you, Erin. Nice to talk to you. Bye-bye.
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