MSNBC
SHOW: HARDBALL
June 10, 2003 Tuesday
TRANSCRIPT: # 061000cb.461
SECTION: NEWS; INTERNATIONAL
HEADLINE: HARDBALL For June 10, 2003
But first, we begin with Senator Larry Craig of Idaho. Senator Craig says he'll hold up the nominations of hundreds of Air Force officers until the Air Force makes good on what he says was a promise to him to deliver four C-130 cargo planes to the Idaho Air National Guard.
Senator Craig, thank you for joining us. How do you defend holding up promotions that allow our Air Force to do its job?
SENATOR LARRY CRAIG (R)-IDAHO: Well, Chris, this is all about promises made and promises kept. Some seven year ago, this was promised to the Idaho Air Guard. We've invested $45 million in facilities out there to receive these airplanes. It is now time that they be received, that we continue that mission out there. I've worked, now, for 12 months to try to resolve this. The continued answer from the Air Force has been, no. They don't have a plan to honor that commitment at this moment. So I thought it was time we appropriately brought to it a head.
MATTHEWS: Who made the commitment to you personally? Who was the person who wrote down his name and said, you will have those four cargo planes? Who said that?
CRAIG: The Secretary of the Air Force.
MATTHEWS: Back then.
CRAIG: Back then.
MATTHEWS: Does he have executive authority or does it have to go through the Defense Department?
CRAIG: He has the executive authority to make those decisions. That's the way planning goes on. There are.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: But does the subsequent Secretary of Defense - Secretary of Air Force to have make good on promises made by previous secretaries of the Air Force who come from a different party's appointment?
CRAIG: If you don't have continuity and continueness of mission, Chris, you don't have anything in the military. There are 24 Air Guard facilities with 12, or eight aircraft. There's one with four. And it's Idaho. So it was a commitment made, and I do believe it is a commitment they are now reneging on.
MATTHEWS: What is more important to the country; that the Air Force be allowed to function or Idaho get four more cargo planes?
CRAIG: Well, Chris, the Air Force is going to be allowed to function in due time. All of these military men and women are in place. They're doing their job. They are certainly going to get their promotion and they are going to get their pay increase.
We're talking about majors and generals. We're not talking about them folks on the ground out there. I have 100 percent voting record for and with the military, and I am going to continue to have that.
MATTHEWS: But in other words, your hold, which has allowed -- you have the Senatorial privilege to hold up a piece of legislation, and you're holding up these promotions of all these gentlemen and women because you don't like the way the Air Force has treated you in Idaho.
However, you say that you're not interfering with the operations of the Air Force. Is that the way they look at it when they can't promote the people they want and put them in the post they want to put them in?
CRAIG: Well, Chris, I had a meeting with the Air Force secretary today, and the White House. And we're working hard to resolve this problem. There has to be a continuity of promise. There has to be a continuation of mission.
And we're going to continue to work to make sure that these men and women are treated fairly and ultimately, they will get their promotions. And we all recognize that. What the Air Force has to recognize, that they don't stonewall for 12 months on a promise made without some kind of resolution to that commitment.
MATTHEWS: So this is a battle between you, Senator, and the United States Air Force.
CRAIG: Well, there are a lot of other Senators out there, and there are a lot of other programs. There are a lot of states that there are commitments made to.
MATTHEWS: Is there anybody else holding up the business of the Air Force, the United States Senate besides yourself?
CRAIG: Well, not at this moment. But if you look over the last 10 years.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Do you think...
CRAIG: Chris...
MATTHEWS: Maybe because I went to Catholic school, but the nuns always asked, suppose everybody does you do. Suppose everybody had a local pork barrel issue involving deployment of troops, deployment of planes, deployment of money, and they said, I'm sitting here and stopping the game. It's my ball. I'm going home. Suppose Chuck Schumer did that in New York because of a Brooklyn Navy yard issue. You stopped everything. What would you think of him?
CRAIG: Well, Chuck Schumer has done it in the past on issues. This happens numerous times. I do defend my actions. There's one thing about my actions...
MATTHEWS: Has he ever stopped 921 appointments from proceeding?
CRAIG: Chris, there's something to be said about my action. I did it publicly. I didn't hide behind the secrecy of the Senate.
MATTHEWS: When did you announce that you were putting a hold on these appointments? When did you announce it?
CRAIG: It has been common knowledge on the floor of the Senate for three weeks.
MATTHEWS: Why did the Air Force to have out you then?
CRAIG: Because they chose to do it.
MATTHEWS: But you didn't do it publicly in a press release. You let them make the announcement. Why did you let them get the jump on you and make it look like they were exposing shenanigans?
CRAIG: Well, Chris, I do 25, 30, 40 decisions a day. Not every one of them is tied with a press release. There are the internal workings of the United States Senate. Mine was not a secret hold where I asked for the hold. I said this is not a secret hold. If people want to inquire about it, I'll be happy to tell them about it.
MATTHEWS: Your Republican colleague, John McCain, released a statement, which read in part, here is what he had to say. "It is completely inappropriate to place a hold on the promotion of servicemen and women who play no role whatsoever in establishing Air Force policy. Those who serve our country in uniform, many returning from Iraq, should not be caught in the crossfire of a parochial dispute."
Your response?
CRAIG: Well, I talked with John. He doesn't disagree with holds. He happens to disagree with holding military people. He and I have a disagreement. Has John McCain used holds in the past on other issues? Oh, yes, he has.
MATTHEWS: Let me ask about the way you think this looks to the world. What do you think American people watching this, or reading about it in the tabs and watching right now, do you think somebody in Milwaukee or somebody in Philadelphia right now thinks you're operating in the national interest?
CRAIG: I know what the people of Idaho think, Chris.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Is that (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
CRAIG: Chris, I know what the people of Idaho think. And I was elected by the citizens of the state to defend their missions and that's what I'm doing.
MATTHEWS: You know, I have a silver dollar my dad gave me once. And it says E Pluribus Unum on it. Is this the way you are operating for many to one, or from one against many?
CRAIG: Well, Chris, if your Senator didn't defend the rights of your state, you would probably be pretty critical of him. This is a different story. The shoe is on the other foot. If it pinches a bit at the moment, let it pinch.
MATTHEWS: How long will you hold up these appointments?
CRAIG: Well, as I said, for the first...
MATTHEWS: Will you give up? Are you going to blink first or you going to make them blink first?
CRAIG: Chris, I've had 11 meetings with the Air Force and 11 times they have said no. You would think at some point they would get the message. Today I believe they got the message.
MATTHEWS: Would you do this during warfare - during time of war, or would you only do it during peacetime? Would you risk this kind of logjam if we were at war? Or you're only doing it now because we are finished with the action in Iraq.
CRAIG: Chris, I started this issue 11...
MATTHEWS: I mean holding up the Air Force from doing its job, from functioning properly. Would you do that during combat or only after the combat is over?
CRAIG: Chris, I have never done it during combat. We are not in combat. I started this 11 months ago. The answer then was no. Today, they're beginning to try to solve a problem.
MATTHEWS: Is the Air Force fully ready to meet its commitments right now given the fact that you put a hold on all these appointments?
CRAIG: Well, they haven't made that decision yet. I hope it is forthcoming.
MATTHEWS: OK, it's great. Thank you very much, Senator Larry...
CRAIG: Thank you, Chris.
MATTHEWS: ... Craig. You've taken a tough position here. Whether your Mr. Smith goes to Washington or you are a pain in the butt is up to the people in Idaho to decide. Thank you very much, Senator Larry Craig.
CRAIG: Thank you, Chris