CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight - Transcript

CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight - Transcript
5/3/2005

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DOBBS: My next guest says North Korea's apparent ballistic missile test is simply more evidence that the Bush administration's policy toward Pyongyang is failing. Senator Carl Levin of Michigan is the ranking Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, joining us tonight from Detroit.

Senator, good to have you with us.

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: Lou, always been-always good to be with you.

North Korea is obviously one of the most difficult issues confronting the United States government and this administration, as it was the previous administration. Why do you say the Bush policies are failing?

Well, because the evidence is so clear. The North Koreans have now taken that plutonium which was under supervision, under inspection, under safeguards, and now taken those rods out, and they've said that they are now beginning, and have begun, to reprocess plutonium which is the most threatening of the fissile material. It's immediate stuff that's available. They have pulled out of the nonproliferation treaty. They have said they would no longer-going to be bound by that self-imposed moratorium on the testing of missiles.

I mean, it's a much more dangerous place because this administration-it's a dangerous place anyway, so there's no doubt about that, and these are bad guys, no doubt about that-but it's been made worse by the refusal of this administration to talk with the North Koreans. They just simply say in Washington, well, we want to work multilaterally. Of course you want to work multilaterally, but that's no reason not to have discussions with the North Koreans.

DOBBS: At the same time, Senator, you and Senator Clinton have sent a letter to Secretary of State Rice, urging bilateral talks. What has been the response?

LEVIN: We haven't gotten a response, yet. But, what we heard on Sunday from Andy Card was that the administration wants to work with our allies, the South Koreans, the Japanese, work with the Russians and Chinese rather than doing this bilaterally. But, it's not either- or. We can have a common strategy, which we must, with our allies and with the neighbors, but at the same time, if they believe, as they do, that we should also talk directly with the North Koreans, we ought to, seems to me, follow that course as well. And not just simply say, unilaterally, we're not talking to people because we don't like them or don't trust them.

DOBBS: Well, beyond not liking them or trusting them, which I think there's more than ample evidence for that position to be taken on the part of this government and any other...

LEVIN: Of course.

DOBBS: ...the fact is, bilateral relationships, as pursued by Madeleine Albright as Secretary of State, did not succeed with the North Koreans. Most frustrating to those I've talked with, Senator, is China's recalcitrance and reluctance to engage in a way that is, frankly, that suits the United States, but also would be protected-at least, it seems so-in controlling, better, North Korea. What is your reaction to those who would suggest that is the proper course?

LEVIN: That is a essential step that China could take. It would be very helpful. By the way, we're urging China to have bilateral discussions directly with the North Koreans. It's kind of inconsistent for us to be urging them to do it and at the same time saying we refuse to do it. Yes, we need the Chinese to be much more actively involved. They've got the leverage, much more than we do, but we also should be willing to follow the advice of people in the neighborhood, including the South Koreans, at least privately, that we should also engage in these discussions as part of a common strategy, and not as an alternative to it.

DOBBS: Senator Levin, we have just, well, actually, about 30 seconds. I need to ask you-I would like to ask you your reaction to General Myers' statements about the constraint of the U.S. military, given the missions it has and its impact should there be future conflicts. Your thoughts?

LEVIN: He's right, and he's being straightforward and I admire him for saying what is common sensical. When you got as many commitments as we do, in Iraq and in Afghanistan and other places, we're overstretched and we are trying to increase the size of the army by at least 20,000 in the Marines, and I think we're going to succeed even though the administration has not supported us doing so in the Congress.

DOBBS: Senator Carl Levin. Thanks for being here.

LEVIN: Good being with you, Lou.

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