MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Ebola Outbreak

Interview

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MATTHEWS: This opens up a larger question, actually a problem authority and trust in this country. And right now, it`s getting a bit dicey, don`t you think? Congresswoman Karen Bass is a Democrat from California, also a nurse practitioner herself. And Michael Steele was chairman of the RNC and lieutenant governor of Maryland.Congresswoman, let me ask you about this thing here.

REP. KAREN BASS (D), CALIFORNIA: Sure.

MATTHEWS: The president -- I don`t know why he said it, but he did say it, that it was unlikely, two weeks ago, that we`d have an AIDS person -- or an Ebola person coming here from West Africa. Why do you think he said that? Who told him it was safe to say it`s unlikely?

BASS: Well...

MATTHEWS: And in fact, it`s not great to be -- to be, you know, knocked down in your claims by reality.

BASS: Right.

MATTHEWS: It`s not a good thing.

BASS: Well, I certainly don`t know who told him, but what I do think he might have been trying to do was to just reassure the U.S. population that we don`t have to worry about a massive outbreak. Now, looking back at it, maybe he shouldn`t have said that, but I do think that probably was the motivation because there`s so much information that the U.S. public needs to know and understand about this disease.

MATTHEWS: Why -- why would he warn us about something, though? What would be the -- tell me the obvious. I don`t know what it is. Why would we (ph) be afraid of people being afraid of Ebola? Isn`t that a smart thing, to be afraid of Ebola and the way it`s handled through the airports and through our transportation system?

BASS: Well, I think...

MATTHEWS: TSA and otherwise.

BASS: I think part of that is correct. But if I remember correctly, he responded that way after the two doctors came to the United States, the ones that were infected and we brought back here, and he was assuring people.

But I do think that it`s important that people be aware. But I also think it`s really important that people not be so paranoid to the point where, you know, people really don`t understand what`s going on. You know, we are dealing with our own epidemic here, the enterovirus, which we`ve had over 500 cases in 42 states. So we have additional concerns that we need
to be worried about. We`ve also had four deaths from that virus in young children.

MATTHEWS: Let me go to Michael Steele. I`m a huge believer in -- actually, I`m a huge opponent of rolling disclosure. I think it`s so vital that politicians be the first...

BASS: Right.

MATTHEWS: ... like in the "Godfather," Michael...

MICHAEL STEELE, FMR. RNC CHAIR, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

MATTHEWS: ... that they tell you that -- as the Godfather said -- I think it was his lawyer that said -- Tom Hagen said, My lawyer always insists on getting bad news fast.

STEELE: That`s right.

MATTHEWS: He wants the bad news -- and I`m sure the congresswoman agrees. You want the staffer to come racing into the office...

BASS: Yes.

MATTHEWS: ... and not sit on it for three days.

STEELE: Right.

MATTHEWS: And here we have a couple of situations -- the JV team over in Iraq and Syria that`s now becoming a global threat, supposedly. So is ISIS a JV team, or what is it? And I`m just wondering about this effort to try to downplay concerns at the expense of being a truth-teller. It is a problem. I`m sorry. Go ahead.

STEELE: No, and I was going to say I would agree with that. It is a problem to the extent that the administration, particularly the president, is getting advice from individuals who aren`t telling him the whole story or laying out some of the ramifications. And all you have to do is look at the most recent episode with the Secret Service. You know -- you know, you have the director briefing the president, but fails to tell him, Oh, by the way, you were in an elevator with someone who had a gun.

So you know...

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: That`s a relevant fact, I think!"

STEELE: It`s a relevant fact. So I think -- and I think the congresswoman would really appreciate, Please, give us the relevant facts so that we, in turn, in answering calls from our constituents...

BASS: Right.

STEELE: ... can inform them what the relevant facts are.

MATTHEWS: Here`s an example of a guy doing it. President Obama was out there pushing the economy today. He gave a passing mention to Ebola and ISIS in the context of American leadership. Let`s take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When alarms go off somewhere in the world, whether it`s a disaster that is natural or man- made, when there`s an idea or an invention that can make a difference, this is where things start. This who the world calls, America. They don`t call Moscow. They don`t call Beijing. They call us. And we welcome that responsibility of leadership because that`s who we are. That`s what we expect of ourselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: And with that responsibility comes responsibility.

Anyway, this is a great example. Here I want to show you of (ph) how you do share information as you get it. Right after 9/11, there was a big anthrax scare up in New York, and Mayor Rudy Giuliani kept people informed and shared information as he got it. And this is just a short clip from one of his press conferences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: There was a skin test, a biopsy that was done. And that came back positive early this morning. CDC notified us early this morning. So the test of the powder was negative to anthrax. The skin test was positive to anthrax.

But since, if it is the powder, the powder goes back to September 25, and you don`t have any additional numbers of people reporting symptoms, the chance is that this is contained, according to the CDC. And we just finished a long conference call with them. The chances that this is contained are very good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Congresswoman, that`s what I like, a very calm disposition of how things stand and how you know it and telling the public everything you know as you know it.

BASS: Right.

MATTHEWS: That`s better than putting out words like, Be calm, and don`t worry, and it`s unlikely. That stuff doesn`t work. People are really smart, and they`re watching TV or listening to the radio or reading the paper (INAUDIBLE) going on line. They go, what did he say exactly? OK, now I can work with that. I can`t do something with this general advice to be calm. But I can do something when I see the mayor of my city going through, granularly, the information as he gets it.

BASS: Absolutely. And I agree with both of you. I want to hear the bad news first, too. Cut to the chase, let me know what`s going on. But you know, I think, in addition to that, giving education. So providing education to people about what this disease is, what the symptoms are, what you should look for, I think is very important, as well.

MATTHEWS: Michael, do you have any assurance that we won`t get a couple more guys jumping on the plane in Monrovia? I have no evidence whatever they have a tough screening system...

STEELE: No. No.

MATTHEWS: ... because it`s a 2 to 21 days incubation period. If the person is not sweating like mad or showing obvious systems, convulsing...

BASS: Right.

MATTHEWS: ... they say, Well, he`s clean because, well, it takes 21 days to show those symptoms. Your thoughts. It`s not working!

STEELE: Yes, no, I agree with that absolutely. And I think it`s something that everybody should really be concerned about who are at those entry points and make sure there are the appropriate checks, if you will, if you -- put in place.

The other thing, though, I think is very important -- and the congresswoman touched on something that`s important -- is the education. And so there are two parts to that. The first is that we the people are informed as to what this disease is, what its symptoms are...

BASS: Right.

STEELE: ... and that we know how to deal with it. But more importantly, as we saw with Texas Presbyterian, that the information from CDC trickles all the way down, so that in that emergency room, even if you have one of the list of symptoms, there`s a sense of, We need to check this. But then when you`re told, Oh, I just came from Liberia or Sierra Leone, then that raises it even further, so that...

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: And this is...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: ... shouldn`t be laughing.

STEELE: ... education is important.

MATTHEWS: Anyway, Congresswoman, I just want to say thank you. I love the fact you`re a nurse practitioner...

STEELE: Yes.

BASS: ... because that means...

STEELE: Absolutely.

MATTHEWS: ... in addition to your legislative success, you have executive ability, which is a great thing.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: I look so much up to nurses, especially nurse
practitioners, who can do the doctor work 90 percent of the time even
better.

BASS: Thank you.

MATTHEWS: Thank you so much, U.S. Congresswoman Karen Bass of
California, and my friend, Michael Steele.

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