NBC: "Meet the Press" - Transcript: 2016 Presidential Elections

Interview

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CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is Senator Bernie Sanders, the independent who caucuses with the Democrats. Let me actually just start with that, Senator Sanders. Are you about to switch parties? Are you going to become a member of the Democratic Party if you pursue this presidential campaign?

BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I am the longest-serving independent in the history of the United States Congress. That's how I've always won in the state of Vermont. I am thinking about running for president and the issue of whether you run as an independent with the necessity of setting up the fifty-state infrastructure… running as a Democrat--that's something that I'm looking at right now.

CHUCK TODD:
And you've -- it sounds like you've ruled out running as an independent or you have not? You could end up doing it that way?

BERNIE SANDERS:
One of the reasons I'm going to Iowa is to get a sense of how people feel about it. Look--the truth is, profound anger at both political parties, more and more people are becoming independent, the negative is, how do you set up a fifty-state infrastructure as an independent?

CHUCK TODD:
I want to read something that was paraphrased to you, it says, ""It is essential,' Sanders said, "to have someone in the 2016 presidential campaign who is willing to take on Wall Street, address the collapse of the middle class, tackle the spread of poverty, and fiercely oppose cuts to social security and MediCare.'" Is it safe to say if you thought Hillary Clinton were doing that, you wouldn't be considering this?

BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, A: I don't know that Hillary Clinton is running. B: I don't know what she's running on. But this is what I do know: I know that the middle class in this country is collapsing. I know that the gap between the very, very rich and everybody else is growing wider.

I know there is profound anger at the greed on Wall Street and corporate America. Anger at the political establishments. Anger, by the way, at the media establishment.

The American people want real change and I've been taking on the big money interests and the special interests all of my political life.

CHUCK TODD:
But you say you're, you're, separating out--are you separating out Hillary Clinton from this? If she were speaking more robustly on these issues, would you be thinking about running?

BERNIE SANDERS:
Chuck, the issue is not Hillary. I-I've known Hillary Clinton for many years. I have a lot of respect for Hillary Clinton.

The question is: At a time when so many people have seen a decline in their standard of living, when the wealthiest people and largest corporations are doing phenomenally well, the American people want change. They want Congress, they want candidates, to stand up to the big money interests.

So, let Hillary speak for herself. I know where I'm coming from.

CHUCK TODD:
Uh, I hear you, it's uh--rail against this, and I think: Boy, you must be unhappy with President Obama.

BERNIE SANDERS:
I think President Obama has done some very good things. I think the level of obstructionism that he has had to face is unprecedented in American history. And in some areas I very clearly disagree with him. I think he should have understood from Day One that the Republicans were not going to cooperate with him.

I think he should have gone to the people in a more aggressive way and say: "You know what? The American people want to raise the minimum wage." We need millions of people to come to Washington, demand us do that. Just can't sit in a room and negotiate with people who choose not to negotiate.

CHUCK TODD
So you believe he--you believe he's been right on most of his ideas. You just don't believe he has, uh, pushed them hard enough?

BERNIE SANDERS:
I think he has been right on some of his ideas. I was on the floor of the Senate for eight-and-a-half hours because I disagreed--

CHUCK TODD
--Right.--

BERNIE SANDERS:
--with his continuing tax breaks for the rich. And I have a lot of disagreements with him. But the bottom line is: I think he has not tapped the anger and the frustration that the American people feel on many, many issues.

BERNIE SANDERS:
The only way we bring about change is when the American people become mobilized. And in this coming election, you know what? Sixty percent of the American people are not going to vote.

CHUCK TODD:
--Are not going to vote.

BERNIE SANDERS:
The Koch brothers and the other billionaires are going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars. That is not a way you bring about change. We've got to mobilize the American people.

CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you on that billionaire front: Is there such thing as a -- If a billionaire agrees with you on issues are you okay with them participating in the process? Or do you think this entire process, whether it's Tom Steyer or Michael Bloomberg or the Koch brothers?

BERNIE SANDERS:
Chuck, I think Citizens United will go down in history as one of the worst Supreme Court decisions ever. I think it is opening up the road to oligarchy in the United States of America, where the billionaires, like the Koch brothers --

CHUCK TODD:
--Left or right?

BERNIE SANDERS:
Left or right, but it's mostly right. Let's be clear about it. It's not fair to give--

CHUCK TODD:
This year it's, yeah, they have, they're--

BERNIE SANDERS:
And it will always be.

CHUCK TODD:
-- spending more money.

BERNIE SANDERS:
It will always be. Look: The Koch brothers are going to spend four-hundred million dollars. Do you know what their agenda is? Do you know what they believe in? Let me tell you what they believe in. This is what they told us. They want to end Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. More tax breaks for the rich and large corporations.

Nobody in America wants that except the billionaire class. And yet they are now able to put hundreds of millions of dollars into the political process. This is a real danger to American democracy.

CHUCK TODD:
Alright. You're headed to Iowa. I guess I'm going to ask it this way about the Democratic Party today. Do you think the Democratic Party is open to a progressive like you? Do you think the Democratic Party is closer to where you are? Or closer to where the Clintons are?

BERNIE SANDERS:
Let me shock you by saying this. I don't think it's just the Democratic Party. I think whether people are Democrats, moderates, or conservatives, there is a profound anger at understanding that the middle class is disappearing, that millions of people are working longer hours for low wages, that 95% of all new income has gone to the top 1%. Not just a Democratic issue. In Vermont, I get a lot of Republican votes.

CHUCK TODD:
Right. But I--I guess I'm going to ask you: Where's the Democratic Party today? Closer to you or closer to Hillary?

BERNIE SANDERS:
I think anybody who speaks to the needs of the working class and the middle class of this country and shows the courage to take on the billionaire class, I think that candidate will do pretty well.

CHUCK TODD:
Bernie Sanders, the Independent from Vermont. We'll be watching you. Stay safe on the trail in Iowa over the weekend.

BERNIE SANDERS:
Thank you very much.

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