CBS "Face the Nation with Bob Schieffer"- Transcript: Ukraine Crisis

Interview

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BOB SCHIEFFER: When we talked to Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel on Friday he set flatly it would be a mistake for the Russians to cross the border into Ukraine.

CHUCK HAGEL (Secretary of Defense): It's serious. We continue to talk with the Russians. I just came back from a NATO ministerial meeting couple of days ago as you know. That was much the topic of the conversation there. Strong support from all twenty-eight members of NATO, of Ukraine, their territorial integrity, their independence. This is the time for careful, wise, steady leadership. The tensions increase and I think all nations have to be very careful here of not promoting any more tension through provocative actions. So we're very close to it. We stay very close to it.

BOB SCHIEFFER: What would we do if the Russians' forces started rolling into other parts of Ukraine?

CHUCK HAGEL Well, I won't get into the different specific options but this could be a very dangerous situation if this continues in a very provocative way. We have many options like any nations do. We're trying to deal with diplomatic focus that's the appropriate, responsible approach. And that's what we're going to continue doing.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But we do have a plan?

CHUCK HAGEL: Well, we have plans for everything all the time.

BOB SCHIEFFER: When you come right down to it what can we really do there?

CHUCK HAGEL: Well, again, we've got different options but for right now the responsible thing is to continue to work through the diplomatic channels and that's what we're doing.

BOB SCHIEFFER: What-- what is our strategic interest in Ukraine?

CHUCK HAGEL: Well, first, it's a sovereign, independent nation. And we support that sovereignty and that independence. They have been a responsible new independent member of the global community since the implosion of the Soviet Union. We have European Union and NATO interests that border Ukraine. These are people who want to be free, who deserve to be free, deserve their-- their own way of life, elected leaders. And so like our position with any sovereign free nation that's the principle upon which the United States stands and I think all Western countries in respecting people's rights and that's where you start.

BOB SCHIEFFER: This, in your view, would be a mistake for the Russians if they decided to go into the Ukraine?

CHUCK HAGEL: I think it would be a mistake. And this would set in motion so many different dynamics that are not in anyone's interest.

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BOB SCHIEFFER: And welcome back to FACE THE NATION Page 2. You know one irony of this week is that all of this story, the Ukraine story broke just after Secretary of Defense Hagel had announced plans to scale back the American military. We're going to pick up the interview there.

I want to talk to you about the military budget that you outlined.

CHUCK HAGEL: Mm-Hm.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You want to reduce the size of the army to the smallest size since before World War II. How do you reduce the size of the American military without making it look like--

CHUCK HAGEL: Hmm.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --to the people around the world that we're somehow retreating, that we're withdrawing from all of this.

CHUCK HAGEL: You start, Bob, with the reality of where we are in the world today. This budget that-- it is the first budget in twelve years that's not a budget based on war footing. We've been at war for thirteen years constantly--two wars. We're out of one war, Iraq. And we're coming out of the longest war we've ever been, Afghanistan. Not unlike after every war the United States has been in, you reset your posture. You reset your assets. You reset your-- your whole enterprise based on the new realities and based on preparing that institution for the challenges of the future. But to answer your question, then how do you adjust to the dangerous complicated world that we're in we've increased, for example, cyber assets, increased special operations. We're focusing on readiness, capability, our capacity, our ability to do the things that we need to do in the strategic interests of the strategic guidance that the President laid out in 2012.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You say we're coming out of two wars, and, yes, that's true. But we're not necessarily coming away victors. We're just coming out of those wars. The enemy is still out there.

CHUCK HAGEL: Of course, the threats are out there. Of course, the threats are shifting. Cyber is a good example. Five years ago there wasn't the same focus or reality of what a-- a cyber attack could do to this country, paralyze this country, bring our economy down without any nation firing a shot, not knowing where it comes from, special operations. The-- the terrorist threat that still is around the world will be with us, I suspect, for some time. We've- we've got to figure out how best we do that. The strategic priorities that we've laid out based on the president's strategic guidance plan, first, defend the homeland. Second, continue to build capacity in securing our world through our alliances, through our treaty obligations, through our commitments all over the world, not retreating from the world. We're-- we're still going to-- going to be there, also defeating aggression in the world and winning a war against any adversary anywhere in the world. That hasn't changed.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But--

CHUCK HAGEL: But how you do it, Bob-- how you do it is always going to be adjusted to the realities of the time and the challenge.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --but you're not suggesting in any any way, shape, or form that we have won these wars, you're--

CHUCK HAGEL: That's not--

BOB SCHIEFFER: --just saying we have to recalibrate the way we continue to fight them.

CHUCK HAGEL: At the peak of Iraq we had a hundred and fifty thousand troops in Iraq, that war. The peak of Afghanistan probably around a hundred and twenty thousand. Those are big numbers. And-- and we-- we-- we don't need those, as you go forward, the same way we did the last thirteen years. So you've got to adjust your force posture. And by the way, it isn't me cutting the budget. It's the Congress' decision on sequestration. So it isn't Secretary of Defense or the President doing this, and I think we should clear that up a little bit here, too. Where-- where are we making decisions and how do we make them, that's a responsibility I have. But also the physical constraints that are being placed on the Pentagon to make very tough choices here are very significant. So what we're talking about is-- is gradually reducing our active duty strength by about ten percent. I mean I don't-- I don't think that's an astoundingly large cut as we adjust in-- we're still going to need a big army.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Let me-- let me ask you about something that your critics are saying, and they say that because you are proposing cuts in benefits, tax breaks, eliminating or slowing down pay raises for some of those on military duty that you are, in fact, trying to balance the budget on the backs of these people who-- who fought these wars.

CHUCK HAGEL: Well, first of all, that's just not true. We're-- we're not making any recommendations or any retirement changes. We're going to wait till the retirement commission comes in. It was impaneled by the Congress on-- on what we need to do if we need to do anything on retirement. This isn't just an arbitrary, unilateral approach to-- to trying to slow the growth just to slow the growth. We've got to look at the long-term commitments to our people. Half of our budget today in the Pentagon goes to pay, compensation, retirement, and medical care. And that will increase significantly. We're not cutting. We're-- we're proposing slowing growth in certain areas. And the-- the tax cuts, we're not cutting anybody's taxes, but we-- but we are asking for specific considerations in areas where we are slowly, eventually reducing the growth of pay increases--there'll be still pay increases and then other areas--we think these are responsible. We don't think it breaks faith with-- with our people. But-- but we have to reset, reposition. I've got to be able to keep a modern military. Those coming in behind me, the technological edge that has made our military the envy of the world along with everything else, best led, best trained, best equipped, best educated. We want to sustain that for our own interest and for our people.

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