CNN "The Situation Room" - Filibuster Rule, Affordable Care Act, and Iranian Sanctions

Interview

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BLITZER: Senator John McCain is warning that Democrats will be -- this could come back to haunt them, this ""nuclear option"" that the Democrats used today.

The Arizona Republican is joining us now in THE SITUATION ROOM from Capitol Hill.

Hey, senator, thanks very much.

When you say this could come back to haunt the Democrats, quickly explain what you have in mind.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZONA: Well, if in -- - in by chance the 2014 elections give us the majority in the United States Senate, which the scenario is certainly out there. I'm not predicting it, but if that happens, then, obviously, they could see a reversal of roles. And if in 2016, we elected a Republican president, then you would see people that -- well, you know, there was Judge Bork that was blocked and a number of others, high visibility nominees that were blocked in the past, John Bolton and many others that, obviously, would only require 51 votes.

But more than that, this -- I read on the floor of the Senate today a letter that Robert Byrd wrote three months before he died about the absolute necessity of preserving the rights of the minority and how that was really the essence of the United States Senate.

I wish every one of my colleagues, particularly the newer ones -- remember that, Wolf, that over 60 percent of the members of the Senate have all -- been there six years or less -- that they could have heard the words of Robert Byrd. And if they had, I don't think we would have voted the way...

BLITZER: All right...

MCCAIN: -- we did today.

BLITZER: -- listen to the words of President Obama today in justifying what the Senate Democrats did.

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BLITZER: Is he right?

MCCAIN: Well, you know, again, I guess it's not where you stand, it's where you sit, because then Senator Obama, in 2005, said if the right of free and open debate is taken away from the minority party and the millions of Americans who asked us to be their voice, I fear that the already partisan atmosphere in Washington will be poisoned to the point where no one will be able to agree on anything, -- blah, blah, blah.

We owe the people who sent us here more than that. So I accuse all -- many of them...

BLITZER: But...

MCCAIN: -- of outright hypocrisy (INAUDIBLE)...

BLITZER: -- but what he's -- what he's saying -- and I think what Harry Reid is saying is that they -- they -- the president has three openings on the DC Court of Appeals, the second most important court in the land. And not because these three candidates that he nominated were disqualified or not appropriate, but simply because the Republicans didn't want to fill these seats and give the Democrats a bit more power in the judicial branch, they went ahead and obstructed, used filibusters, to delay their nomination.

Is that right?

MCCAIN: That's correct. And if you might look at the record, a few years ago, the Democrats, Senator Leahy, then Senator Obama, and Senator Reid, did the exact same thing.

BLITZER: So just because the Democrats...

MCCAIN: (INAUDIBLE) blocked expansion...

BLITZER: Just because the Democrats did it then, is it OK for Republicans to do it now?

MCCAIN: No, I don't think it's OK. I don't think it was OK to do it then. And we didn't invoke the "nuclear option." And I don't think it's a reason to invoke the "nuclear option" now, Wolf.

And I would also argue that 99 percent of the nominees before the United States Senate have been approved by Republicans. It's been a very, very small number, less than 1 percent, that have been -- that have been not eventually confirmed by the Senate.

And there is, as Robert Byrd pointed out, advice and consent. And now we have taken away that from that part of "The Constitution" that requires the Senate to have that prerogative.

BLITZER: You worked with the Democrats in the Senate in recent weeks on comprehensive immigration reform, on avoiding discrimination against gays and lesbians. You passed some bipartisan legislation. And I know you tried to avoid this "nuclear option" with Harry Reid. You met with him several times.

But listen to what Harry Reid, the Democratic majority leader, said today.

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REID: The most important distinction is between those who are willing to solve this problem and those who defend the status quo.

How could anyone, in good conscience, defend the status quo?

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BLITZER: And I know you're not defending the status quo, but -- but you are saying the Democrats will...

MCCAIN: No. But I...

BLITZER: -- will pay for what they did today. And I -- I just want a little more elaboration on how they will pay. Because the president is going get, over the next three years, assuming the Democrats stay in the majority in the Senate, all of his executive branch and judicial branch nominees cleared.

MCCAIN: Well, believe it or not, there's still quite a bit of legislation that goes through the United States Senate. And it's done on the basis of people's agreement and work with one another across the aisle.

This is -- there are going to be difficulties from time to time where cooperation was probably the case in the past and will not be now.

But right now, Republicans are going to feel -- Republicans are going to focus on ObamaCare. We're not going to be diverted by this. We're not going to shut down the Senate. We're not going to do any of those things.

We're going to focus on trying to repair ObamaCare, which is plaguing the lives of millions of Americans.

BLITZER: So when you say repair, does that mean repeal, delay? What does repair mean?

MCCAIN: I mean -- I think it means to put in provisions that are free market-oriented, that are not social engineering, taking money from people who are young and well and giving it to older people, and revamping a system that badly needs to be restructured, so that we can do, as the president promised, and that is, bend the cost care curve down and provide health insurance for every American.

We can do that, but not with ObamaCare.

BLITZER: So when you said earlier today, this changes everything, the use of the "nuclear option" by Harry Reid and the Democrats, does it -- I'm trying to get some clarification right now.

Will you find bipartisan opportunities to work with Democrats to get important legislation passed?

MCCAIN: I will when it's in the interests of the country. When it's in -- solely to the interests of the Democrats, then I think there's going to be significant difficulty. Look, I've built up friendships over the last many years with the members on the other side of the aisle. I'm very close to Carl Levin and many others. It puts a strain on everything.

But most importantly, the damage that it's done to the institution is far more severe than what has been done to either party. That's why everybody should read Robert Byrd's letter.

I'm worried more about the damage to the institution that I am, frankly, to our relationships.

BLITZER: There are some people who are now suggesting that this killing of the filibuster, if you will, on judicial and executive branch nominees, with the exception of Supreme Court justice nominees, could be expanded to also go into legislation itself.

Are you among those worried about that so-called slippery slope?

MCCAIN: I'm very worried about it. And it seems logical that if they're frustrated by the judicial nominees, they're also frustrated by the various parliamentary procedures that hinder legislation from moving forward on the floor of the Senate.

So I'm very worried that they will make that decision on that aspect of it, as well. And then we might as well merge the Senate and the House of Representatives.

BLITZER: Because some people are already saying the Senate is going to turn out to be like the House, where a simple majority rules the day.

Before I let you go, Senator, this deal that seems to be in the works in Geneva right now to allow some easing of U.S. sanctions as far as Iran is concerned, in exchange for more transparency, a freeze of their nuclear program, you and a bunch of other senators, including Democrats, are working to strengthen and to heighten some of those sanctions right now. And the administration says if you do that, that will kill this deal.

MCCAIN: Well, we have grave concerns about the provisions of this bill. I share the concerns of the prime minister of Israel. We would like to see, among other things, the Iranians acknowledge they do not have the right -- certain rights that they think that they have. That we think that the centrifuges could be dismantled, not just stopped. We are giving them some relief and they are just pausing.

We have grave concerns. And we will be looking at what happens here in the next couple of weeks.

We're going to go out of session, as you know, in Geneva. But there are grave concerns amongst many of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle.

BLITZER: So when -- you were...

MCCAIN: The right to enrich -- the right to enrich is one of those that we're concerned about.

BLITZER: So you were at the White House the other day and you -- with a bunch of Senators.

You met with the president, right?

MCCAIN: Yes.

BLITZER: Did he make a convincing case to you?

MCCAIN: He made a case, but not strong enough to convince me yet. But I'd be glad to see what their latest negotiating positions are. But not forcing them to renounce the right to enrich, I think, is a fundamental part of it, because they have lied, prevaricated and deceived.

Remember that the president of Iran now, that they call a good guy, was also the same guy that was their negotiator between 2000 and 2003 that bragged in an interview how he deceived the negotiating partners, including the United States of America. And, obviously, the ayatollah's comments yesterday were as harsh as we've heard from him in a long time.

BLITZER: Senator McCain, thanks very much for coming in.

MCCAIN: Thanks for having me on, Wolf.

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