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ABC "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" - Transcript: Government Shutdown and Healthcare


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RADDATZ: We'll have a little more on them both later. Thanks so much for joining us, Leader Pelosi.

And now to the GOP. There has been a lot of talk about the rift between the Republican Party that the shutdown has exposed.

"The New York Times" this morning calling it a civil war, and Jon Karl is back with us.

Jon, you explored that civil war with two Republicans this week.

KARL: That's right, Martha. I talked to two high profile Republicans, both are potential presidential candidates, both are, no doubt about it, conservatives. But as you'll see, they represent opposite sides of this battle for the future of the Republican Party.


CRUZ: The deal was a terrible deal. The Washington establishment sold the American people down the river. It provided no relief for the millions of people who are hurting because of ObamaCare, but it is worth also focusing on what did happen because a lot, I think, was accomplished in the last couple of months.

Number one, the public debate over the harms that ObamaCare is inflicting, it elevated the public debate. And that is critically important.

KARL: People hated this shutdown, they hated this impasse and this was seen as the Ted Cruz shutdown. You more than any single individual were seen as the one that triggered this crisis to begin with.

CRUZ: Jon, I agree that a lot of D.C. politicians tried to call it that and a lot of the media did, too. But --

KARL: We're talking about public opinion nationally.

CRUZ: But look, I -- I -- let me be very clear. I said throughout this, we shouldn't have a shutdown. I don't want a shutdown. I repeatedly voted to open the government.

KARL: But there never would have been a shutdown if you hadn't gone with the strategy of saying we're not even going to fund the government for six weeks --


CRUZ: And you know what?

KARL: -- unless we can defund ObamaCare.

CRUZ: -- you know what, John, there never would have been a shutdown if Harry Reid and President Obama hadn't said we will not compromise, we will not negotiate, shut the government down.

KARL: How much do your colleagues just despise you right now on the floor? I mean, I hear some really strong language from your own fellow Republican senators.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZ.: I think it's obvious that we are now seeing the end of this agonizing odyssey. It's one of the more shameful chapters that I have seen.


CRUZ: Listen --

KARL: You made -- you made some enemies in this battle.

CRUZ: There is an old saying that politics, it ain't beanbag. And you know, I'm not serving in office because I desperately needed 99 new friends in the U.S. Senate. Given the choice between being reviled in Washington, D.C., and appreciated in Texas, or reviled in Texas and appreciated in Washington, I would take the former 100 out of 100 times.

KARL: You did a radio interview where you compared Senate Republicans to an Air Force going over and bombing their own troops, bombing conservatives, bombing House conservatives.


CRUZ: And when you have got half the Senate Republican caucus firing their cannons at the House Republicans, it sabotages the effort.


CRUZ: The reason this deal, the lousy deal was reached is because, unfortunately, Senate Republicans made the choice not to support House Republicans.

KARL: You're saying more than that, though. You're saying not only did they not support House conservatives, that they attacked House conservatives as Republicans.


CRUZ: Well, and I think that was unfortunate. I think it was unfortunate that you saw multiple members of the Senate Republicans going on television, attacking House conservatives, attacking the efforts to defund ObamaCare, saying it cannot win. It's a fool's errand and we will lose, this must -- this must fail.

That is a recipe for losing the fight and it's a shame. We didn't win this battle, but I am encouraged that we have demonstrated when the American people stand up, the House of Representatives will listen and I hope in time the Senate will listen also.

KARL: What next? We have another deadline, government funding runs out on January 15th.

Will you rule out pushing to the brink of another shutdown by saying you would block funding for the government unless ObamaCare is defunded?

Will you do that again?

CRUZ: I would do anything and I will continue to do anything I can to stop the train wreck that is ObamaCare.

What I intend to do is continue standing with the American people to work to stop ObamaCare, because it isn't working. It's costing people's jobs and it's taking away their health care.

KARL (voice-over): But Cruz continues to be under fire from members of his own party, including former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, who told us the tactics that Cruz championed caused Republicans to lose ground.


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