NBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Government Shutdown

Interview

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SEN. JON TESTER (D), MONTANA: It is great to be with you, Rachel. Thank you.

MADDOW: Should we have expected all these individual line items, funding items in the bill to pass the Senate tonight, or was this a surprise?

TESTER: It is a surprise. I mean, I think that this stuff was probably put in with all the best of intentions, but it is one of the reasons our popularity ratings are so low, is because of surprises. We have seen a lot of surprises the last three weeks. And I wish that we could have kept it clean. And look, there are things I like to get in, and there are amendments I like to put on bills that go through, too. But the bottom-line is that you need to have time to be able to analyze what is in a bill. And quite frankly there was not a lot of time. As you said, this bill came out at 6:00. I found out about the provisions before I voted, but just before I voted.

MADDOW: And there is no time to, I mean, not enough time to read it, because there is not enough time to let it fly another day because then we`re sliding into disaster territory.

TESTER: That is exactly right. And I think these insertions may have just been fine. But the fact is, we ought to have the opportunity to debate them on the floor and discuss them and make sure they`re the right thing to do, make sure it is the right thing to put in this bill. But the real problem here is, Rachel, is for the fact that for the last three weeks, we have been dealing with the House of Representatives that have done some pretty kooky things, done some pretty damaging things to our business climate in this country, to our world reputation and to working families.

And that is really the criminal part about all of this. This never had to come to this point. There was a clean resolution to fund the government in the House long before the shutdown. And I think we could have gotten a clean debt limit passed, too. But a total lack of leadership in the House and being led by the minority of people who fell off the right side of the earth.

MADDOW: We will see why whether or not the House is able to pull it together and actually pass this thing. Tonight, everybody says, to expect that, but I think we are all sort of, on tenterhooks wanting to makes sure that it actually does happen, even though they say it will. But one of the things that happen that was very unusual during this process, is that one senator, one member of your chamber, Republican Senator Ted Cruz, freshman from Texas, actually got involved very overtly in the House negotiations, telling House Republicans to stand strong and not cave on this and that they were the ones that needed to really push the shutdown, really egging them on. How does that affect his standing in the Senate now? Is there anything like that ever happened before Senator, you know?

TESTER: Not that I know, but I will tell you there was very average on the get-go, that this was about Ted Cruz raising money for a potential run for the presidency. That`s all this was about. It was about Ted Cruz. It wasn`t about the country.

And I`m telling you -- you know this, Rachel, you talked about it in the last three weeks, the things that the folks were following Ted Cruz are trying to do, would have done long-term devastating damage to this country`s economy, and we would have no way got our arms around the debt and deficit in the country because our economy would have been in the tank, far worse than it was back in 2008.

You know, I don`t know why you would follow somebody who would take you down a path to destruction, but that`s what some of the House members are doing. I think it is very unfortunate for the country.

MADDOW: Understanding what you do about why this happened, how this happens, and obviously, I can hear it in the tone of your voice how you feel, the anger you have about the consequences of what we`ve just been through over the last three weeks. Do you feel like you have learned anything and the Senate has learned anything about how to avert this, how to stop this from happening again in three more months?

TESTER: Well, I think there are good people on both sides of the aisle in the Senate that want to get things done, and want to get some things done to move the economy forward in the right direction. We`re working in a bipartisan way for example, Rachel, on a House financing reform bill that I think should be the next bill up, as soon as we get things operational again and get back in town. It will help the housing market and move things forward.

It is a bipartisan bill that makes sense and moves the country forward in a positive way and solves problems. That being said, we can do that on every issue. But we certainly can`t do it if there`s obstructionists out there that want to ruin the economy and their main focus is on themselves and not on the country.

MADDOW: Senator Jon Tester of Montana -- sir, thank you very much for your time tonight. I know it has been a long night already. Thanks for being here.

TESTER: Thank you, Rachel.

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