MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript: Food Stamps

Interview

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REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: Ed, it`s been weeks, months, and years and you have hit it and I think the pope has heard you. He has expressed himself and I don`t care whether you`re a Catholic or Protestant, Jew or Gentile, Mormon, this is the time. Anyone that`s familiar what the bible, anything like that, when Jesus said that you`re going straight to hell if you didn`t treat the less of his brothers and sisters, and what did he say, he said he was hungry. They give him food stamps. He was thirsty, you didn`t purify the water. That he is naked, he gives some (ph)
security. And God knows he was sick, and you gave him no comfort.

Can you imagine if 60 million Catholics became missionaries just for the poor, the sick, and the uninsured, and then the Jewish community, and the Protestant community, nobody likes that the congress is doing nothing.

A handful of people who drink the Cool Aid is ruining our country, and the moral compass is certainly to be is going to them. They have been called by a higher authority. I think this is the beginning of a new era. I really hope and pray that it is.

SCHULTZ: Well, I think that Pope Francis, it would be (inaudible), the timing would be perfect. If he were to come to the United States, first stop Washington D.C. and talk about moral and social commitment and having it being faith based. E.J. Dionne, the pope is putting a renewed focus on the poor and is speaking directly the income inequality. This was the sermon that he gave over the weekend. What does this mean for republicans?

E.J. DIONNE: I don`t know what it means for republicans. I think it means great things for the world and great things for the Catholic Church because he has thrown the doors open of the church and saying, "We want to work with everybody on behalf of justice." And he has been incredibly pointed in his comments about helping the poor but also about broader injustices in the economy. And I think this is going to make a difference in the world.

I do think we ought to arrange for Senator Cruz to get some kind of brotherhood award, because Ted Cruz is bringing Fox News together with you, he`s bringing Nancy Pelosi together with John McCain. And if I could just make one point about Republicans, if you look at this state level, there are a lot of Republican governors who are accepting the expansion of Medicaid because they know it`s good for the uninsured in their states, it`s good for hospitals.

I was in Ohio last week, and Governor John Kasich who took a weekend on the labor issue in that referendum when he went after the unions, he seems to have had some second thoughts and he`s fighting like crazy for expanding Medicaid against his legislature. He told the legislature that when you get to the gates of heaven, St. Peter isn`t going to ask you if you balanced the budget, he`s going to ask you what you did for the poor, Governor Kasich is sounding like Pope Francis which is I suppose maybe .

SCHULTZ: No doubt about it.

DIONNE: . his first -- for the Pope`s first miracle.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, is a shutdown likely? What do you see as the scenario on folding ahead?

RANGEL: You know, basically, the Republicans are decent people. It`s tailed (ph) its wagon the door to leadership would be lost without their support. But I do believe if they`re concern at all about our great country, they are not prepared to have an economic disaster and say almost at the last time. And closing down the government politically is bad. But worst than that, the number of hospitals that take care of the sick and the poor that won`t be able to get meals, what it would damage in terms of the heart of America.

I don`t think the Tea party has that much strength to control Republicans who now expressing themselves against Cruz, but it`s not Cruz.

He really doesn`t count, his frustration in the House Republican Party and they want out of this trap but they don`t want to give up their leadership and they don`t want to give up that majority. But believe me, they`re not insane. They won`t close down the government and they`re not prepared to bring international, national, physical chaos.

SCHULTZ: OK. So Congressman, do you think that this Party is starting to unravel? I mean, do you think that they`ll do irreparable harm to their party if they do shut it down, Charlie?

RANGEL: Big businesses, you know, they`re making profits that are not (ph) seen because this is America but they know that if the physical (ph) credibility of this country is shut, you bet your life they`ll be making telephone calls.

DIONNE: Yes.

RANGEL: And I truly believe that each one of the issues we`re talking about moral issues. And sooner or later, the church who knows how to get behind same sex marriage, they know exactly what they have to do without cost insured. The line (ph), and I am convinced that if enough Americans, say we`ve had enough of this, that`s kind of pressure is going to make more than just who`s the leader in the House or the Senate.

SCHULTZ: And E.J. Dionne, 59 percent of Americans don`t want ObamaCare defunded, but they just won`t get off of this. And will republicans take the blame if there is a shutdown because you hear the narrative right now, already Cruz and some of the others are saying, "Well, it`s a Harry Reid`s fault." The president -- I heard one conservative commentator last week talk about how actually President Obama wants a shutdown. I mean, they`re trying to reverse this thing around a big way, although (ph) majority of Americans don`t want it, why are they selling this stuff?

DIONNE: Well, I think they can`t get out of responsibility for the shutdown because it is an incredibly unusual and that`s mild for a party after a peace legislation is passed to use a shutdown of the government or the Dead Ceiling, you know, and possibility of physical chaos, of economic chaos as a way of repealing a bill of that`s already passed. The other thing is, the republicans kind of got branded as the Shutdown Party back in the 1990`s. And like it or not .

SCHULTZ: Didn`t do many good then either?

DIONNE: What? No. It didn`t do them many good then. And because the public associates the word "shutdown" with what looking what (inaudible) congress did back then, I just don`t see how they can get out from under it and you got all these leading republicans like Karl Rove among others saying, "We don`t want to do this because we will take the blame." So yes, they`re trying to figure a way around it but I think most of them know they`re going to, again, hit pretty hard I think shuts down (ph).

SCHULTZ: Congressman Charles Rangel, E.J. Dionne of Washington Post, great to have both of you with us. Thanks so much for joining me tonight. I appreciate it. Remember to answer tonight`s question there at the bottom of the screen. We want to get your thoughts on Twitter as well and Ed Show and on Facebook. Like us on Facebook. And we always want to know what you think. Up next, Nazis on the prairie. Yeah, a small town in North Dakota becomes the center of a big fight against racism. We got the details.

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