MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript - Sexual Assault in the Military

Interview

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MADDOW: That was how President Obama reacted last week when it became
known that the man that the Air Force had put in charge of combating sexual
assault had, himself, been arrested on charges of sexual assault. That was
last week.

Now, it has happened again. This time, it`s the Army, where a
sergeant first class who was in charge of combating and responding to
sexual assault cases for an 800-person battalion in Ft. Hood in Texas is,
himself, now also under investigation for sexual assault and other charges.
Defense sources telling NBC News that the investigation is into
allegations that the sergeant forced one female subordinate into
prostitution and that he sexually assaulted two other female service
members.

Again, this is an investigation, no charges have yet been filed,
that`s why we don`t have the identity yet of that sergeant first class.

If you are having difficulties keeping straight exactly which sexual
assault prevention guy has been charged with sexual assault, it would
suggest that the sexual assault prevention plan is may be something that is
not working across the military.

The Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel said today he has discussed this
issue with President Obama, including the new investigation of the guy at
Ft. Hood. He also said that he has ordered a retraining and rescreening of
all the people working in sexual assault prevention throughout the military
-- although you have to wonder, weren`t these guys trained in some way for
the sexual assault prevention positions that they did have when this stuff
happened?

When Senator Claire McCaskill was on our show a week or so ago talking
about this subject, she said, this is not a problem the military can train
its way out of.

Right. There was no magic military-specific answer here. Sexual
assault is a crime, but apparently, in the military, it is a crime that not
enough people are afraid of getting caught for.

The military`s own efforts here, so far, are a terrible failure. Can
they fix it? Can Congress make them fix it, since apparently military thus
far at least has not been able to do it themselves?

Joining us now for the interview tonight is Democratic Senator Barbara
Boxer of California. Senator Boxer is cosponsoring a bill in the Senate
that would change the way sexual assault cases are adjudicated in the
military. She introduces that bill in the senate tomorrow.

Senator Boxer, thank you so much for being with us tonight.

SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: I`m very happy to be with you on
this very difficult topic.

MADDOW: Yes, this bill you`re cosponsoring with Senator Kirsten
Gillibrand of New York, I understand you`re proposing that sexual assault
cases be, essentially, taken out of the chain of command in the way they
are adjudicated.

What would that mean in practical terms?

BOXER: Well, let me just make it very simple for folks.
Every year in the military there are about 25,000, 26,000 events,
cases where people have been assaulted, sexually assaulted. Out of that,
only 3,000 a year report this. And out of that, there are only 300
convictions.

This is a nightmare. Literally, you have thousands and thousands of
felons walking around the military, perhaps they get out, they are walking
around our streets. They`ve never paid a price for their crime.

So what we want to do is make sure that a woman or a man, 50 percent
of these are men, OK, can either go to a commander, someone in the chain of
command and report it. We change the laws so that that commander must
report it to the military police, to the prosecution, or they can go to the
victims` assistance we have set up under Leon Panetta, this victim
assistance organization. They can go there. That advocate can report it.
They all have to report it immediately. And that`s really horrific
situation when you have at the front end of this people too scared to
report it because they fear nothing will ever come of it.

Listen, you`ve got all these people walking around free, and I`m sure
they are bragging about it, a lot of them. And so, there`s a culture
there. We have to change the culture.

MADDOW: President Obama, when he remarked on this last week and then,
Senator McCaskill, your colleague, when she was on this show that same day,
they both expressed frustration that the military`s essentially seen this
as a training problem, military has treated this as sort of an awareness
sensitivity and training issue.

President Obama being very blunt. He doesn`t think the military can
train its way out of this problem.

Do you -- do you agree with that assessment?

BOXER: Absolutely. They have been training and training and
training. Every time something happens, they train more.

But I got to tell you, when you have the vast majority, thousands of
these felons walking around nothing ever happens to them and if you ever
report this, you get harassed, you get harangued, may be the end of your
career, you know, that wonderful documentary that was done, "The Invisible
War" shows, puts a face on this. And people explain what happens to them
when they have the courage to come forward.

Look, we have to change this. Enough with the talk. We need
legislation. We`re having a press conference tomorrow.

I`m proud to say we have Republicans and Democrats behind this
legislation. It is absolutely necessary. And, you know, anyone who
doesn`t agree with it, I just don`t feel -- this is my opinion -- I don`t
think they`ve studied the issue enough. It`s clear the path we have to
take.

MADDOW: Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel is expressing resistance to
the basic idea of this kind of reform. He`s saying that he wants to keep
the chain of command intact, including for dealing with issues like this,
that he thinks it has to be handled within the existing structures, even
though he takes the problem very seriously.

What`s your counterargument to him on that?

BOXER: It`s pretty simple, right now it`s in the chain of command and
we have 20,000 felons a year walking around and harming people, hurting
people, injuring them.

Do you know, Rachel, we got a new report? The V.A. has stated that
right now there are 50,000 men being treated by the V.A. who have
experienced some kind of sexual assault in the military.

This is an epidemic. This has to stop, and, you know, Chuck Hagel and
I are friends. I supported him and he wrote me a beautiful letter saying
we`d work together. We need to talk about this, because you go to your
commander, the commander many times just says never mind, we don`t think
your case is worth anything.

They are judge and jury. That`s wrong. We need to change it. If you
choose to go to the command structure in our bill, the commander must
report it immediately. You can also go to that victims` assistance program
that was set up and get one of those advocates to report it. And that`s
what`s going to work here.

This has to stop, and I intend to call Chuck Hagel, my friend, and
tell him, you know, you need to be bolder on this one.

MADDOW: Senator Boxer, if you do get that conversation with Secretary
Hagel, we`d love to hear how it goes. Let us know.
Thank you very much, Senator Barbara Boxer of California. Pleasure to
have you here tonight. Thank you.

BOXER: Thanks.

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