CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript - Drones and National Security
Interview
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BLITZER: We will see who represents him as well in that in federal court. Thanks very much, Joe Johns.
Let's dig a little bit deeper with Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon. He's a member of the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee.
Your immediate reaction to this news that we learned today. You may have learned about it longer than we did. But what do you think about this decision to bring him to New York?
SEN. RON WYDEN (D), OREGON: Wolf, first of all, you can't as a member of the Intelligence Committee get into any details with respect to a particular case.
But I think you know I am for taking the fight to al Qaeda and I think what we need to do is look at ways to it as effectively as possible and do it in line with our values. And particularly with respect to the role of federal prosecutors, there are an awful lot of these terrorists and very dangerous individuals that are spending time in a maximum security facility now because the federal prosecutors have done good work placing them behind bars.
BLITZER: Very quickly, you think this is a big deal, a little big, middle kind of deal? How big of a deal is he?
WYDEN: Again, Wolf, I just can't get into details.
But I think -- and you see this particularly in this whole debate about drones -- we continue to face very real threats today. And the challenge is to make sure, particularly given the fact that the president right fully has extensive powers as commander in chief.
We recognize that there are checks and balances and that's why you're going to continue to have questions, for example, about military tribunals or federal prosecutors, some of the questions I know you want to get into the details on.
BLITZER: I do want to get into the details. Hold on for one moment.
All right, this just coming in from Capitol Hill. The U.S. Senate now has confirmed John Brennan to be the next CIA director. The final vote is 63 in favor, 34 opposed. Brennan is a former White House counterterrorism adviser, a former CIA deputy director, certainly a top architect of the Obama administration's drone program as well. He will replace the retired U.S. General David Petraeus who resigned in November amid revelations of an extramarital affair.
The Brennan vote follows an almost 13-hour filibuster by Senator Rand Paul. The Tea Party-backed Kentucky Republican blocked the vote while demanding an answer about those drone strikes, potential drone strikes on American citizens on U.S. soil. That answer came in a letter from the attorney general just a little while ago. Eric Holder writing to Senator Paul.
And while Senator Paul was talking to our own chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, he got to read the letter.
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DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is literally three sentences long. And he says that the answer to your question about can Americans be killed on U.S. soil, and the answer is no. Are you satisfied?
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I'm quite happy with the answer and I'm disappointed it took a month-and-a-half and a root canal to get it, but we did get the answer. And that's what I have been asking all along.
And it really is what the Senate should be about, advise and consent and find out what policies are. I have a feeling since this was so difficult that I never would have gotten this with routine letters to the White House.
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BLITZER: Let's bring back Senator Wyden. He was the only Democrat to join Senator Paul's filibuster of John Brennan.
Quick question, Senator. Are you satisfied with the letter, the explanation from the attorney general, these three sentences?
WYDEN: I think it's helpful, Wolf.
And what he said is really consistent with what I went into on the floor of the Senate yesterday. In effect, the Holder letter now makes it clear, if you're talking about a noncombatant in the United States, you cannot use lethal force. You cannot strike with a drone.
What the earlier letter said -- and it was what I went in to yesterday -- is that if you're talking about our country having to repel a foreign power, such as in the instance of 9/11 or something of that nature, you have to use military force. So we're continuing to root out more of the details about our policies.
And I can tell you, Wolf, that this debate about drones, both in Washington, D.C., and in our country, is just beginning. There is a lot more work yet to be done. And I think you're going to see Democrats and Republicans here in the United States Senate -- we kind of call ourselves the checks and balances caucus -- spending a lot of time trying to bring to light consistent with national security more details about the drone program.
BLITZER: What do you think about killing American citizens engaged in terrorism on foreign soil, let's say like in Yemen, where the U.S. had a targeted assassination of Anwar al-Awlaki?
WYDEN: I can certainly conceive of plenty of instances, Wolf, if you're talking about an American who is taking up arms against the United States. I can think of plenty of instances where our country needs to use lethal force to deal with that kind of particular situation.
What we're going to have to flesh out is, for example, what happens if our country has the wrong person or somebody thinks that they don't belong to one of these groups and the government does? Those are some of the issues we need to address.
I have continued to say my bottom line is I believe that every American wants to know when their government believes it's allowed to kill them. And until we make that very clear and address some of the additional details and the questions I, Senator Paul, Senator Udall, Senator Lee, a large group of senators are talking about, we have got more work to do.
BLITZER: Not necessarily Senator John McCain, who was out on the Senate floor today really going after Senator Rand Paul, some of the remarks he made during his filibuster yesterday. Listen to McCain.
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SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I don't think that what happened yesterday is helpful to the American people. But somehow to allege that the United States of America, our government, would drop drone Hellfire missile on Jane Fonda, that is -- that brings the conversation from a serious discussion about U.S. policy to the realm of the ridiculous.
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BLITZER: All right, you want to respond to Senator McCain?
WYDEN: Well, Wolf, I'm an admirer of John McCain.
He's a special friend to Nancy and I. I can tell you that this debate is not essentially about Jane Fonda. It's about the fact that the very nature of warfare is changing and it's changing so dramatically. And we are now going to have to think through a new set of rules and a new set of approaches.
For example, I have very strong beliefs that operations conducted by the intelligence community need to be kept secret, but the law itself should never be secret. We shouldn't be practicing secret law. And until we won just here in the last few days our two-year campaign -- it's a two-year campaign, Wolf. I made seven requests of the Obama administration to get the legal analyses behind these drone strikes.
We were essentially in the dark. So there are a lot of issues still to be dealt with.
BLITZER: Senator Wyden, thanks, as usual, for joining us.
WYDEN: Thanks for having me.
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