MSNBC Hardball - Transcript

MSNBC

SHOW: HARDBALL 7:00 PM EST

October 25, 2004 Monday

HEADLINE: HARDBALL for October 25, 2004

BYLINE: Chris Matthews, Milissa Rehberger, Howard Fineman, Andrea Mitchell, David Shuster

GUESTS: Chris Doherty, Chaka Fattah, Ed Rendell, John Kerry, Jim Matthews, Rick Santorum

BODY:

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MATTHEWS: OK, we're going to have-U.S. Congressman Chaka Fattah, from Philadelphia coming up in just a moment.

And we're also going to have Chris Doherty, the mayor of Scranton, Pennsylvania. That's a great duo coming up.

More coming up from Pennsylvania. It's Pennsylvania night on HARDBALL.

MATTHEWS: We're back with HARDBALL. We've got Congressman Chaka Fattah from Philadelphia here, a good buddy of ours on the show for many years. And we have the Chris Doherty, the mayor of the last Irish city in America. Scranton, Pennsylvania. Why do all the Irish stay in Scranton? What is that story about?

MAYOR CHRISTOPHER DOHERTY (D), SCRANTON, PA: We're a friendly city. People like to come there.

MATTHEWS: And I spoke at your dinner there (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It truly is one of the historic places on the universe.

DOHERTY: It was a great dinner and a great night. We loved having you.

MATTHEWS: Let's talk about this state. It has become the focus of the country. Congressman, Pennsylvania. What do you think about the results next Thursday?

REP. CHAKA FATTAH (D), PENNSYLVANIA: As it was with Clinton twice and Gore, I think it is competitive. But we're going to win it. Senator Kerry is going to carry Pennsylvania.

MATTHEWS: Is it slightly to the Democratic side of the national average? How would you put it in terms of other states? It's not a bellwether, exactly.

FATTAH: In a presidential race, it is a competitive state but one that leans slightly to the Democrats. We've had a significant registration drive here. Republicans have worked hard. Bush has come 41 times. He'll be here a couple more times. But it's been a hard selling point, and I don't think it will be sold by election day.

MATTHEWS: Why do you think, Congressman, that the president has spent so much of his quality time in a state that you think normally tilts the other way? So why is he so hopeful?

FATTAH: I think that there's a real concern in the rest of the electoral map, that they could have some losses in some places that they won before.

MATTHEWS: Like Ohio?

FATTAH: Ohio, and maybe Florida.

And that they need to make it up somewhere. And because it was only a four-point differential last time, they decided long ago when the president first got sworn in to office, to put Pennsylvania on their radar screen. He's been here more than he's been in Crawford, Texas.

MATTHEWS: That's good. Because this is work, and that's play.

FATTAH: As the president will tell you, this is hard work.

MATTHEWS: That's right. Congressman, tell me about the old northeastern part of the state. Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, that part of the state, coal mining, Molly Maguires, all that history?

DOHERTY: Predominantly a Catholic area, and conservative Catholic, but an area that has always voted Democratic. As the congressman was saying, we went with Clinton twice. We went with Gore. And I think the senator is going to win comfortably up there.

MATTHEWS: What did you make of the president heading there right after-didn't he head there right after the Republican convention? Why do you think he went right to Scranton, President Bush?

DOHERTY: I think because he figures he can tap into that conservative Catholic movement. But I think he misjudged it because people up there, they vote for the party because they're true Democrats. And there are other issues besides abortion.

MATTHEWS: How does a man or a woman, 55 years old, some average age person, decide between voting values? Because you're really not talking about changing the law much on these abortions. It never really changes much. And the courts challenge it if you try to change it, and the economic issues of jobs and outsourcing and those kinds of current issues. How do people tell you that they're deciding it?

DOHERTY: I think what you hear most about is jobs. People in Pennsylvania, and northeast of Pennsylvania are concerned with where their kids are going to stay. And they want to see opportunities for their kids.

MATTHEWS: They don't want the kids to head to New York.

DOHERTY: They don't want them to go to New York. They want to see their grandchildren raised in Scranton or Wilkes-Barre or in Philadelphia. And they want to see their kids get jobs and good jobs.

MATTHEWS: You know, I heard the same thing. HARDBALL, we had the show out in Iowa-I forget the name of it, it was right near Sioux City, Iowa and I asked some people about it, and their big, key concern was keeping the kids at home.

DOHERTY: And that's the number one issue I always hear about. We want our kids to stay here. It is a great quality of life in Pennsylvania. Scranton and Wilkes-Barre have a low crime rate, good education, but we've always had a tough time keeping jobs. Now we're starting to see that resurging. We are starting to see jobs come to the area. But more importantly, we think the Democrats, we think that John Kerry is the guy who can make the difference.

MATTHEWS: Do you think you could have a zero-sum situation in a state like Pennsylvania, where you appeal to the minority crowd in Philadelphia, that was a mixed crowd today certainly, and you appeal to people who are secular in their politics. And also, be able to hold a more culturally conservative people like up in Scranton out in the middle part of the state. How do you do both?

FATTAH: I think it is important that you talk about health insurance. We have hundreds of thousands of people in our state who are not covered by health insurance and have lost it since Bush took office. People who had jobs when he was elected the first time, or selected by the Supreme Court, they don't have their job today. I mean, I think the conditions, when they see the national budget deficit, when they see all these issues, and there is a concern about the war.

Pennsylvania has been very high up there in the number of casualties that we've suffered, both in terms of fatalities and wounded in the war. So there's a lot going on here. And I think the synergy of that and the Kerry message, that is much more hopeful, less based on these scare tactics, and the fact that underneath it all, Pennsylvania is a state where we elected Ed Rendell, where we elected Bob Casey, where you can see a conservative Democrat win, a more moderate Democrat win. This is a state that Clinton carried, Gore carried, Kerry can carry.

MATTHEWS: Both of you, you start, Congressman, and then Mayor Doherty, if you had asked the people of your constituency, your congressional seat and your city, up or down, should we have gone to Iraq, what would they be saying? Is it too close to call?

FATTAH: The answer is no.

MATTHEWS: Mr. Mayor?

DOHERTY: I think they'll be nervous about it. I think their biggest-what they comment is that we weren't prepared once we got there.

MATTHEWS: But would they answer the yes or no? Was it a blunder? Was it a mistake? Or should we have done it or not? Was it smart for the United States?

DOHERTY: I think they would lean more that it was a blunder.

MATTHEWS: That it was a blunder. Has that been growing?

DOHERTY: Yes. Because as the casualty rises-as the wounded rise - - the congressman talked about, a lot of people from Pennsylvania, a lot of people from Scranton, this is the Army, the military, is a way they make the bills meet. They're weekend warriors. And now they're over there fighting for their lives.

MATTHEWS: So being a reservist doesn't mean being a reservist anymore. It means being in action, or not getting back.

DOHERTY: I have five city employees that are over there right now.

FATTAH: When you hear Senator Lugar say this is worse than incompetence, and Chuck Hagel and others-these are Republicans. So you know, there's enough concern in a bipartisan way. And it has gotten through. People are paying attention. They see the problems over there. They see when a group of soldiers say, wait a minute. We don't have armored trucks so we don't want to go on a suicide mission.

MATTHEWS: That's pretty weird. Wasn't it? That happened in Israel a few months ago where they would not go out past the green line.

FATTAH: There's a real question now about the competence of how this has been put forward. And when Pat Robertson comes on TV and says, Bush says there weren't going to be any casualties. Then there's a question about whether he is facing reality.

MATTHEWS: OK, gentlemen. Thank you. We're going to have enough of you Democrats for a while now. Chris Doherty, great guy. Nice Mick.

FATTAH: HARDBALL, right here in Philadelphia.

MATTHEWS: We're going to change the theme here and we're going to bring in some new cohorts, my brother, Jim Matthews, county commissioner, Montgomery County is coming in. He's a big-time Republican in this part of the world. And then we're going to have Rick Santorum, the United States senator from Pennsylvania, join us by phone. The changing of the guard is about to occur in Pennsylvania.

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