Hearing of the House Select Committee on Homeland Security - Homeland Security and 9/11 Commission

Federal News Service September 14, 2004 Tuesday

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

SUBJECT: HOMELAND SECURITY AND 9/11 COMMISSION

CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS COX (R-CA)

WITNESS: TOM RIDGE, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY

BODY:

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REP. COX: The gentle lady from Texas, Ms. Granger, is recognize for five minutes.

REP. KAY GRANGER (R-TX): Thank you very much, and thank you for being with us again. When I first came into the Congress eight years ago, the numbers that I heard were that we could reasonably accept 300,000 people coming into our United States a year-and we were getting about a million-two. I'm looking at a Time magazine article called "Who Left the Door Open?"-and they say that it's as many as three million now coming illegally into the United States, and a small growing number come from other countries -- 55,890 were apprehended-described officially as "other than Mexicans"-because often it's Mexicans. First of all, I'd ask do your numbers coincide? Do you believe those numbers? And the most important question is: What are we going to do about it, and what are we doing about our border?

SEC. RIDGE: Our numbers would differ. Unfortunately, I believe they have to guesstimate the number of people that are not apprehended. Coming in with a conclusive figure about the number of people you don't actually know who crossed the border I think is somewhat speculative. But, having said that, we admit that we haven't closed the border completely.

But I would share with you, congressman, that I think we have gained significant operational control over the border over the past 18 months with the creation of the department. It's one of our highest priorities, and there's a variety of means that we've used to try to close the border. We certainly have more agents down there, because of congressional appropriations. We have more sensor technology. We've got-we've begun to experiment with unmanned aerial vehicles, so we have basically an opportunity to see what's going on in some of the more perilous and difficult terrain that we may have a difficulty accessing, but illegal aliens use as a route into the United States. We have much closer cooperation with our friends in the Mexican law enforcement community. So there are a variety of things at our land borders that we continue to promote to try to continue to close the gap. Admittedly, we still have work to do.

REP. GRANGER: What more do you need? What more do you need from us?

SEC. RIDGE: I think in time, depending on how the experiment with the unmanned aerial vehicles works out, there may be a need for more capital equipment and more agents. One of the challenges we have is to continue to generate even greater support from our friends in Mexico with regard to really tracking down and eliminating the alien smuggling network. We all know everyone has great empathy for those young men and women and families that try to come across our borders. We don't look as Mexicans as a terrorist nation or these folks as terrorists. They're coming in for the same reason immigrants did many, many years ago. But we do have a responsibility to protect our borders and try to ensure that any immigration is legal. And so to the extent that we can do more to break down the illegal network that has been established within Mexico that supports this effort-and I think frankly we're doing better there, but more cooperation would be helpful.

REP. GRANGER: I'll be going on a tour of the border this upcoming weekend, and I know what I'll see, and they'll take you to the places where people-where it's regulated crossings. But what we're hearing are the crossings that are certainly not regular crossings. And you know the border is so long, the number of agents-I don't see how we can ever get there from the number of agents. So it has to be technology, it seems to me.

SEC. RIDGE: I think the biggest challenge we have is: What are the kinds of technology that we can deploy along the border that give us the information, the awareness, the alert that we need to interdict. And we're experimenting with different kinds of sensors, and the latest experiment I think has high potential-great potential, the unmanned aerial vehicles.

REP. GRANGER: Thank you very much.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

REP. GRANGER: I'm going to interrupt you, Mr. Secretary. I'm sorry, we've got a vote and we've got one last person to ask questions, Mr. Etheridge.

SEC. RIDGE: All right. Well, let's let him ask. And I'm going to call you, Congresswoman, and answer the rest of the questions.

REP. JACKSON LEE: Good. Thank you.

SEC. RIDGE: All right? All right.

REP. BOB ETHERIDGE (D-NC): Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Secretary. Thank you for staying. You have a huge challenge and a broad breadth of what you have to do.

Let me return back to one. I have asked this question to a number of our witnesses when I've had an opportunity.

REP. GRANGER: We have nine minutes left before the vote.

REP. ETHERIDGE: And I must confess, we haven't gotten resolution to it yet. You started on it a while ago, so let me return. Just last week, the (mayors'?) preparedness campaign released their report on the preparedness of America's 20 largest school districts-by and large, most of them are metropolitan, urban school districts-in their preparedness for security, terror, et cetera.

And certainly the incidents in Russia shocked us all. I think it shocks us to a new realization. And having served as the superintendent of schools in North Carolina-and I think we've done a lot of things of putting people in place-my question is-though, in keeping with that, because it's not uniform across the country, as you well know, urban as well as rural-do you think that schools should be added to the national critical infrastructure list of having enough information to be able to pull together a critical infrastructure of what needs to happen in response and what ought to happen?

SEC. RIDGE: Well, I think, first of all, we know schools are part of-certainly intellectually and emotionally part of our critical infrastructure.

REP. ETHERIDGE: Absolutely.

SEC. RIDGE: I also think that we've said that out of the billions we're giving to state and local governments, some of those dollars are eligible to be used to enhance security around schools as well. So whether or not they are on a national list of private-sector infrastructure or it's not as important as they are eligible for some of the dollars, the billions of dollars we distributed to the states and locals, depending on the need of that school district or that school.

REP. ETHERIDGE: Let me follow that up.

REP. GRANGER: Mr. Etheridge, let me say, we have about six minutes left before the vote. And, of course, we promised Secretary Ridge that he would be out of here by 4:30. So if you could go very quickly.

REP. ETHERIDGE: I still think I have a little time on the clock, please. I missed-I was here for the last meeting and didn't get to ask questions.

REP. GRANGER: All right.

REP. ETHERIDGE: Mr. Secretary, in keeping with that, we have a lot of schools that, in addition to that, children are in a lot of trailers across America, and they're isolated from the main buildings for security purposes. And in addition to what you've just said, they add an additional vulnerability for principals and teachers and those in the buildings, because I know of instances where we've had situations, not like what happened in Russia. Would you care to comment on that, because I think that is a critical piece, as we look down the road, and not just say they're eligible --

SEC. RIDGE: Oh, no.

REP. ETHERIDGE: I think we need to make sure we are proactive in providing resources to be used for that.

SEC. RIDGE: But I must say respectfully, to a former superintendent talking to a former governor, there's a shared responsibility --

REP. ETHERIDGE: Absolutely.

SEC. RIDGE: -- when it comes to education. And the decision, for whatever reason, for a particular school district to isolate a building from the main school is certainly within the purview of that school district or that secretary of education. And, frankly, if there are attendant security problems associated with that permanent isolation of the building, one could argue very appropriately that it's much more a responsibility of the local or the state government.

Having said that, Ready for Kids will be part of our rollout of our national preparedness campaign, working with the school districts to review security procedures, evacuation procedures, emergency procedures when the children might be required to stay at school and under what circumstances. Not only do they stay, but how do we support them?

There are a large range of issues where I do think the federal government has a role to play and federal resources can be used. Not to get down in the weeds, but the kind of situation you described, I think, is much more local and state than federal.

REP. ETHERIDGE: Let me clarify that, because I think you misunderstood my question. In some cases you have school districts who are growing so rapidly or, for lack of resources, they wind up being isolated unintentionally because they're in trailers rather than the main building. And this creates some additional problems. And if we could make resources available to those, or at least eligible, I think it would add a lot of security to those local jurisdictions.

SEC. RIDGE: I think the first responsibility of the local school district and state department of education is to educate, and secondly to make sure they're being educated in a secure environment. There is a role that the federal government has in support of both of those missions, and we've made some progress in advancing those roles with the Ready for Kids, working with the Department of Education on some of the procedures that I mentioned. And I, from a personal point of view, would love to continue the private conversation since we ran out of time.

REP. ETHERIDGE: I would like to do that, if we could, please. Thank you. And I yield back.

SEC. RIDGE: All right.

REP. GRANGER: I thank Secretary Ridge for his valuable testimony and the members for their questions and participation. The members of the committee may have some additional questions for the witness, and we'll ask you to respond to those in writing. The hearing record will be held open for 10 days.

REP. : Mr. Secretary, let me apologize for my absence today. I was on the floor with a substitute, and no disrespect for my absence. We appreciate your being here so very much. Thank you.

SEC. RIDGE: That's all right. Thank you. Understood. Your colleagues advised me coming in. Thank you.

REP. GRANGER: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. And there being no further business, the committee stands adjourned.