Federal News Service - Hearing fo the House Armed Services Committee

Federal News Service

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE SUBJECT: FINDINGS OF THE SCHLESINGER INDEPENDENT REVIEW PANEL ON DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE DETENTION OPERATIONS

CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA)

WITNESSES: JAMES R. SCHLESINGER, CHAIRMAN, INDEPENDENT REVIEW PANEL ON DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE DETENTION OPERATIONS; HAROLD BROWN, PANEL MEMBER, INDEPENDENT REVIEW PANEL ON DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE DETENTION OPERATIONS

LOCATION: 2118 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C.

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REP. ROBIN HAYES (R-NC): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, thank you for your work. Two comments that I just want to spend a moment on and I think it's very important. There is a need to investigate and prevent these types of things. But, Secretary, in your written testimony, you said very clearly that we found no evidence of a policy on the part of senior civilian or military authority that countenanced, let alone, encouraged or directed abuse.

And then, Dr. Brown, you said we found no indication of a policy encouraging abuse. I think this is very important as we look at this in an ongoing fashion. We have troops in the field who are at war, who have significant and dangerous jobs to do, including the protection of their teammates in the field, facing issues that can be solved and prevented by good intelligence.

Can you just kind of expand on that and help us get a focus on winning this war on terrorism and how we move forward with winning the war. At the same time, deal with the issue of the problems that were uncovered but put that behind us. I know getting the election minus would help.

MR. SCHLESINGER: What we see now is weapons of mass destruction in the hands of-potentially in the hands of a few. And the capacity of individuals with conventional explosives which have been greatly improved and are widely available to do substantial damage. As I observed, we protected the infrastructure of Iraq, which is now being wrecked by the insurgents. We are trying to preserve the basis of livelihood for the Iraqi population. They are in the process of destroying it.

Given that these weapons are available. Given that you are dealing with these insurgent groups or with terrorist groups, if the distinction can be made, we need to have vastly superior intelligence than when-for example, in the Cold War. In the Cold War, one did not have to have as much intelligence with regard to where units were, simply because we had SIGINT, we had photographic intelligence, overhead satellites, so we could trace large units if they were to move against the West.

We could trace ships at sea. Insurgents, terrorists are far more furtive, and they can do substantial damage. And as a consequence, we need to be more aggressive than we have been in the past in gathering intelligence at the human level when one encounters terrorists or insurgents as opposed to the traditional prisoner of war.

REP. HAYES: Dr. Brown.

MR. BROWN: I think that's right. It still leaves us with the issue of what sorts of interrogation methods are then justified. It's I think been rather widely observed that torture does not necessarily get you truthful answers. It just gets you answers.

And to me that reinforces the view that under the circumstances, under almost every circumstance, there should be strong limits on interrogation of the same sort that apply in criminal cases within the United States. It's always possible to describe scenarios that pose an impossible dilemma. You have someone who you're quite sure knows where the bomb is and when it's going to go off, and he won't talk.

I think it is a mistake to make-accept a priori exceptions for such cases. If someone is confronted with such a case, the interrogator is, as I say, faced with an impossible dilemma but has to act. And if he acts in a way that violates the laws against improper interrogation and abuse, then he has to submit himself for judgment. That judgment should be tempered by the details of the case.

And there was such a case. Lieutenant Colonel West, who, on the field of battle, had someone-captured someone who he knew could provide information that would help save his troops. And he allowed his subordinates to beat the individual and then shot off a gun next to his ear and got the information. And he turned himself in and he was punished. But the punishment was ameliorated by the circumstances of the case.

REP. HAYES: I remember the case well. I came down on Colonel West's side. In closing, again, I appreciate what you've done. And to keep it in perspective, yesterday we had three lieutenant colonels and two captains, as I recall, who said-four of them said 90 percent of the Iraqis appreciated what we're doing. The other one said 95 percent. That still leaves a significant portion of 25 million people in Iraq that we have to get good information. And I'm proud of our soldiers and what they're doing. And, again, we appreciate your help and hope we stay on track, keep our focus on winning the war. Thank you.