Fox News The O'Reilly Factor - Transcript

Fox News Network

SHOW: THE O'REILLY FACTOR (20:29)

September 14, 2004 Tuesday

HEADLINE: Personal Story
Artist faces Pornography Charges

GUESTS: James Clyburn

BYLINE: Bill O'Reilly

BODY:

O'REILLY: In the "Personal Story" segment tonight, singer R. Kelly is currently facing 14 counts of child pornography in Chicago. But last Friday, he headlined a benefit concert at the behest of the Congressional Black Caucus. When I first heard about this, I couldn't believe it. But it's true. Joining us now from Washington is Congressman James Clyburn, a member-Clyburn.

O'REILLY: Clyburn. I'm sorry, congressman. A member of the CBC. I'm terrible with names, congressman, but I should have remembered yours. R. Kelly, is that OK with you?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN: It was OK with me. Accusations are what they are. Allegations are what they are. And until these accusations are played out in the court of law, and until this young man is found guilty of something, I think that the CBC Foundation and the CBC Sponsors, which incidentally are separate from the Congressional Black Caucus itself, were perfectly legit in their invitation.

O'REILLY: All right, your colleague, Congressman Albert Wynn disagreed, he boycotted the event, saying it did not send a good message, primarily based upon Kelly's videotapes with underage girls. Have you seen those tapes, sir?

CLYBURN: No, I have not seen those tapes. In fact, I'll tell you the truth, until this controversy developed, I had never heard of R. Kelly. But maybe I'm living in a different...

O'REILLY: Well, I mean, it's a generational thing.

CLYBURN: Absolutely.

O'REILLY: But you know, you know what the controversy is about this guy, and he was charged in a number of states. He's got good lawyers. He's been running around. But here's my problem with it. The Congressional Black Caucus should be a role model organization for all Americans. You wouldn't...

CLYBURN: The Congressional Black Caucus is a role model for all Americans. I'm very proud...

O'REILLY: All right. Well, let's cede that it is a role model organization. I believe I'm a role model for some people. I'm not going to hang around with somebody who's going to have to stand trial on child pornography, sir. Because although you're right, you're innocent until proven guilty...

CLYBURN: That's true.

O'REILLY: ... you are judged on your associations. And if somebody - - I want to see that adjudicated before I let that person in my living room, sir.

CLYBURN: And the last time I checked, you were palling around with people like Rush Limbaugh...

O'REILLY: I've never met the man in my life.

CLYBURN: I said pal around with him. You don't have to meet him to pal around with him.

O'REILLY: I've never palled around with Mr. Limbaugh in my life.

CLYBURN: Well, I know what your philosophy is politically, I know what his philosophy is politically, and you compliment each other.

O'REILLY: That's fallacious. That's totally fallacious.

CLYBURN: And I have never heard you criticize Rush Limbaugh one bit for his drug use accusations. And I'm perfectly willing to let Rush Limbaugh play it out in court to see whether or not he's guilty of what he's being accused of.

O'REILLY: Look, I have no association with Mr. Limbaugh, and your assessment of my political philosophy is erroneous. But I will tell you this. If you're equating someone's drug use with charges of child pornography, you are terribly misguided, sir.

CLYBURN: No, I'm not equating that. I'm equating innocence until proven guilty.

O'REILLY: Well, I just said-I ceded that point, but you are judged on your associations. And the Congressional Black Caucus embraced this man at a fundraiser, and I think it was a terrible mistake.

CLYBURN: Well, you think so, and I don't. And I do believe that until this gentleman is found guilty of something, I'm perfectly willing for him to continue to make his living.

O'REILLY: All right, so are you going to invite Scott Peterson to your next fundraiser?

CLYBURN: Well, it was not our fundraiser. And I said before, and I'll say again, the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation and the Congressional Black Caucus Spouses (ph) are separate entities from the Congressional Black Caucus.

O'REILLY: No, you're making excuses for it.

CLYBURN: I am not making excuses.

O'REILLY: I think it was just a terrible judgment, I really do, I really do.

CLYBURN: Well, that's your opinion. And I do believe that my judgment is well honed, and I am very proud of my ability to make judgments. Now, the fact of the matter is, the way you judge things is totally different from the way that I judge things.

O'REILLY: But surely, you would not encourage people to associate with accused child pornographers, would you?

CLYBURN: Well, I would not encourage anybody to listen to an accused drug dealer and drug user, if that were the standard.

O'REILLY: If I were Mr. Limbaugh-you know, he's not an accused drug dealer, and I think you're very terribly misguided there.

CLYBURN: Well, if you make enough stuff, or if you're accused of making enough stuff to get drugs, and sending somebody to pick them up for you...

O'REILLY: It's like two different worlds, sir. It's like two different worlds. And I'm going to leave it there because I don't want to get involved with anymore of that. I'll let the people make up their own mind. But if you think what Mr. Limbaugh is accused of and what R. Kelly is accused of are on the same plane, there's nothing I can say.

CLYBURN: Accusations are accusations.

O'REILLY: Appreciate you coming on. When we come back, is right wing radio going too far? Back with it in a moment.