NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript
Interview
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SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
Good morning. Thank you.
DAVID GREGORY:
Tim Geithner, the Treasury Secretary, was here last Sunday. I asked him about this ongoing deliberation and he was emphatic about the outcome. This is what he said.
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DAVID GREGORY:
Senator DeMint, is he right? No alternative but to raise the debt ceiling?
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
Well, he's probably right on that, but there's only one plan in Congress right now to do it in a way that the credit agencies say won't turn us towards a negative rating and that's to cut cap and balance plan in the house that gives the president the increase in the debt limit, but it does it with those credible, long-term, deficit-reduction measures that both Moody's and S&P have said we have to do or they will lower our credit rating.
DAVID GREGORY:
Well, what-- what is in that? Be specific about what that would do?
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
Well, it does the three things that we have to do. We cut spending significantly but reasonably in this budget year. We cap spending over the next 10 years to bring us towards a balance. But probably most importantly, and to have any kind of permanent reform, we send to the States a constitutional amendment that would force Congress to balance the budget. Let's let the states and the American people decide. It wouldn't happen until about 10 years out, but it gives us time to fix our tax code, to fix Social Security and Medicare. And that's what we have to do.
DAVID GREGORY:
Senator Durbin, there aren't votes for what Senator DeMint is talking about. That's just a legislative reality. However-- and-- the president made the point, "Look, we don't need a Constitutional amendment to balance the budget for us to do our job." But is he wrong? Maybe you do need something to force you guys to do your job because its' not being done now.
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:
Let me just tell you about the constitutional amendment. It does not have the votes in the Senate. I don't know about the House of Representatives. And this notion that we somehow have to change the constitution to do what we were elected to do is just plain wrong.
The bottom line is those who want to push a balanced budget amendment are saying, "I can't promise you that I won't steal again, but I will vote for the 10 Commandments." That isn't a good, solid approach. I've said through a year and a half dealing with this whole deficit crisis, both at the Bowles Simpson Commission and the Gang of Five, bipartisan efforts both.
And I can tell you the president has put on the table a reasonable-- list of alternatives that can bring us to $4 trillion in deficit reduction and we don't have to wait for the states to ratify a constitutional amendment. Let's get our job done now.
DAVID GREGORY:
Was Senator DeMint, what-- what's going on here? I mean so many people I talk to are frankly disgusted with Washington. You know, you have on the one side people saying that-- that Republicans are-- are just crazy. That they won't negotiate. That they're being unreasonable. That they're denying the prospect of a default. Michelle Bachmann saying it's a misnomer when the Fed chief says it would be economic calamity.
And on the other side you-- you know, you've got Republicans saying, "Look, somebody's got to draw a line in the sand here. It's-- it's the Democrats who have run up-- the debt since President Obama got into office." But the reality is nobody is really willing to compromise and to make a deal.
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
Well, David, we certainly are willing to compromise. We're willing to give the president an increase in the debt limit. And you'll see the House pass that bill this-- this week. But Senator Durbin and 20 other-- Democrats in the Senator are on record supporting a balanced budget amendment. And that is a place that we have to get to.
But we need to realize, setting all politics aside, that our country is on course for a financial disaster. We can't take another $10 trillion in debt that the president has proposed. So it is absurd to say that we cannot agree that sometime in the next decade that we have to stop spending more than we're bringing in. You'll see in the next week Republicans are more than willing to work with the president.
DAVID GREGORY:
But--
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
But the only pro-- proposal that the president has sent to Congress, David, is a budget that increases the debt another--
DAVID GREGORY:
All right.
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
--$10--
DAVID GREGORY:
But-- but--
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
--trillion.
DAVID GREGORY:
--Senator DeMint.
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
Not the--
(OVERTALK)
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DAVID GREGORY:
Let's be realistic. Bottom line here. If a balanced budget amendment is not passed, which it-- you heard Senator Durbin say it's not going to be passed, will Republicans still vote to raise the debt ceiling? And if not, are you prepared for the consequences on this economy and for the country?
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
Well, I hope the president won't take us through that. And I hope Senator Durbin won't. But we've got to draw a line in the-- in the sand now, because the day of reckoning is going to come. And the longer we put it off, the bigger the problems are going to be for our country.
I mean Moody's, Standard and Poor, these agencies are telling us if we increase this debt limit without credible and long-term deficit reduction, that they're going to lower our ratings. That means it's going to be harder and more expensive to borrow money and we can't borrow another $10 trillion that the president's proposed.
DAVID GREGORY:
Right. But Senator--
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
Again--
(OVERTALK)
DAVID GREGORY:
--I'm sorry. I'm not getting an answer, though. But what-- what's going to happen? How does this end? I know what your position is. How does this end? Are you saying that you would put the country into default by not raising the debt ceiling unless you get this balanced budget amendment?
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
Well, David, we're not going to default. And if you listen to your previous guest, he said we won't meet some obligations, but he didn't say we were going to default. I don't want to put the country through that, but the fact is Republicans and Democrats have been irresponsible. They've brought our debt to the point where we literally can't borrow much more money without bankrupting our country.
So now is the time for the president, Senator Durbin and the Democrats to work with us and at least agree that we can make some cuts now and-- and cap spending over 10 years and let the states decide if sometime over the next decade that we'll balance our budget.
DAVID GREGORY:
You know, Sen--
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
That's hardly a radical idea.
DAVID GREGORY:
Senator Durbin, you and others have described what Senator DeMint just said as intransigence, stubbornness and unwillingness to negotiate. The reality is it's exactly what Democrats said about President Bush when he wanted to raise the debt ceiling for bringing up too much debt. And-- and the scale was completely different there. I mean now you want $2.4 trillion in additional-- debt ceiling. When it was $800 billion. So you can understand why Republicans are saying, "Enough has got to be enough."
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:
Well, I can understand it, but keep in mind that it was the economic policies of the Bush administration that led us into a situation where we more than doubled the national debt under President George W. Bush. Now I hear from Senator DeMint and others, "Let's stick with those same policies, giving tax breaks to the wealthiest people in America and not facing reality."
David, let me tell you, those people who minimize the impact of a default-- on the debt ceiling, a default on America's-- debt and our full faith in credit, really have said thing-- things that are outrageous. Some of the Republican presidential candidates in Iowa, one of 'em says he's praying for a default. Another one said she is opposed to extending the debt ceiling.
And others are saying, "Well, listen, maybe we can't make Social Security payments for a month or two. Maybe we can't pay our veterans what we promised. But we'll work it out." That is highly irresponsible. What we need to do is to sit down and work together. The president has laid out a big plan. Majority leader Harry Reid and the Senate Democrats have said, "We want to work toward a big plan to reduce this deficit by at least $4 trillion over the next 10 years."
DAVID GREGORY:
Senator Durbin--
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:
You've got to do this--
DAVID GREGORY:
My question is is whether-- Senator, whether President Obama is the one to really lead this. There are some progressive as well as Republicans who say that he has been late to this negotiation, late with ideas and late to provide leadership.
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:
David, let me tell ya, if you could have been in-- in the White House cabinet room, as I was, for six separate meetings and watched this president of the United States patiently listen to each member of the leadership in Congress lay out their ideas on where to go and how we can do this together, if you know that he started the meeting saying, "I'm putting everything on the table so that we can have a reasonable, comprehensive approach to him." You saw real leadership in action. I can't think of another president in my memory who would devoted that much time and that much patience to trying to bring--
DAVID GREGORY:
Well--
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:
--both sides together.
DAVID GREGORY:
--quickly--
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SENATOR DICK DURBIN:
But ultimately the responsibility is ours.
DAVID GREGORY:
Quickly from both of you, Senator DeMint first, what happens in the end? What-- what-- what-- what resolution do we get before or by August 2nd?
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
David-- we can't vote on a speech. The president hasn't sent us a proposal. There's been no proposal out of Democrats in the Senate. The only plan on the table that'll keep us from default and will keep us from falling to a negative rating is the cut cap and balance plan. Now folks can say that it's outrageous to balance our budget, but over 70 percent of Americans think we need to. And that's what--
DAVID GREGORY:
Right. But--
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
--we're going to insist on as Republicans. You're seeing real leadership now in the House from John Boehner and that's the only leadership--
DAVID GREGORY:
But--
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
--you're seeing in Washington right now.
DAVID GREGORY:
Senator Durbin, bottom line, what-- what's going to happen? First of all, will-- will they meet again today? Will folks meet today?
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:
There won't be a meeting of the same group but I can tell you what's going on. Majority Leader Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell are working on an approach which will avoid this terrible deadline of August 2nd and a default which would drive up interest rates and we-- will hurt our economy.
We will have a debate on the balanced budget amendment this week in the United States Senate. We've got to get this job done. The president is there standing by, willing to help us, but we have got to accept the initiative as elected leaders in Congress to really solve this problem and move America's economy forward.
DAVID GREGORY:
Before I let you both go, I want to ask you about the breaking news this morning and-- and the reported arrests of Rebecca Brooks-- News of the World in Great Britain. And this scandal that's unfolding in the Murdoch-- media empire. It's something that also has reached here in the United States. Would you like to see Congressional hearings as to whether there's any-- you know, tie here to the United States in this phone hacking scandal, Senator Durbin?
SENATOR DICK DURBIN:
Yes, I would. I could tell you that there are questions about whether the Foreign Corps Practices Act has been violated by Rupert Murdoch and his-- news empire. And what's going on in England is startling. To think of the extent that they went to to break the law to try to report a story. We need to follow through with the FBI investigation and also with Congressional investigation.
DAVID GREGORY:
Senator DeMint, what do you think?
SENATOR JIM DEMINT:
David, we need to let law enforcement work here. Congress has had-- has got a big issue in front of us. We need to handle our own business for a change. And wi-- the focus this week is on the on-- the only plan we've got and that's cut cap and balance.
DAVID GREGORY:
All right. We're going to leave it there. Thanks to both of you.
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