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Fox News "On The Record" - Transcript

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This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," August 4, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight, President Obama gets a ballot box smackdown in Missouri! The "Show Me" state showed the president what they think about his national health care, and it isn't pretty. Missouri voters went to the polls yesterday -- 71 percent of Missouri voters approved Proposition C, which allows citizens of Missouri to simply ignore the new federal mandate to buy health insurance. The questions -- does this Missouri referendum have any teeth whatsoever, or was it simply a symbolic vote?

Joining us live is Missouri Lieutenant Governor, Peter Kinder. Peter, Governor, Lieutenant Governor, I should say, what does this mean?

MISSOURI LT. GOV. PETER KINDER: Greta, it was a historic night. What it means is that an F-5 tornado touched down in all 114 counties across our great state of Missouri! And I've never been prouder of the voters of Missouri for standing up for our right to direct our own health care choices.

It started with State Senator Jane Cunningham, who got the ball rolling in the legislature. The legislature passed the measure and put it to a vote of the people. We were ground zero. We were the first vote in the nation. And I'm proud that between 71 and 72 percent of Missourians in all 114 counties said yes to Proposition C, no to a misbegotten federal health care law that is really a federal health control law that Missourians want no part of.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right...

KINDER: It's worth nothing that the Democratic nominee for the Senate, Robin Carnahan, opposed Prop C. Robin Carnahan, meet your board of directors, the voters of Missouri!

Now, the opposition says it doesn't have any teeth. We're going to find out...

VAN SUSTEREN: But that's what I was going to...

KINDER: ... Greta. You were...

VAN SUSTEREN: That's what I was going to -- that's what I was going to ask you. I mean, there's the political aspect to it. And I know that you have filed a separate state action on behalf of three citizens challenging the federal health care statute...


VAN SUSTEREN: ... which is separate and apart from the Virginia suit and from the suits in Florida. But what does a referendum do? Because, you know, federal law trumps a referendum. So I mean, is it sort of just a symbolic gesture, a shot across the bow and a warning to the President Obama administration?

KINDER: Greta, like you and like many of your viewers, I'm aware of the supremacy clause in the federal constitution. But what we have here is an unprecedented uprising of the people and of the elected representatives of the people. The attorneys general of 20 states now are challenging "Obama care." This cannot be ignored!

I agree with Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit fame in Tennessee, the legal scholar at the University of Tennessee, who says this is the forth great awakening in American history. We are rediscovering our constitutional roots. We are rediscovering the primacy of limited constitutional government. We're saying no more to an overreaching, overweening federal bureaucracy.

And this vote on Tuesday night strengthens me in my lawsuit in federal court in Missouri, just as the decision of the federal judge that you had Attorney General Cuccinelli on from Virginia a couple of nights ago in that state strengthens my case and makes us that much stronger. So this is a multi-pronged effort across many states.

I want to encourage those living in the other 49 states, press your state lawmakers to pass the same law. And if you have referendum in your constitution, like we do in Missouri, like something like half the states do, insist that it be put to a vote of people. This will ultimately be something that our federal masters cannot ignore!

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, so it sort of has a momentum going forward. But in terms of -- you said that it is good for your lawsuit in Missouri -- I mean, as -- it's a momentum, but it certainly is not a factual predicate to push your argument forward. I mean, you can't go into court and say, you know, Based on this referendum, we are now a stronger position, to the judge. I mean, it is -- it's interesting. It shows what the people of Missouri want. But it's -- it's separate from the lawsuit, would you not agree?

KINDER: What was it Mr. Duly (ph) said, quoted by Will Rogers, the Supreme Court judges, they read the election returns. And at some level, they do. Some level, if this is a broad-scale enough uprising, it will have an impact. And the parade of left-wing professors who are on many of the cable shows saying that we don't have standing, that our case isn't right, that our claims are frivolous -- one by one, they're being shot down. So our side across this nation should take heart and join this broad-based uprising and this prairie fire and help us light it across America!

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, you raise that issue of standing. That was something that was thrown out -- thrown at the state attorney general in Virginia, and Judge Henry Hudson went through it carefully step by step by step by step.

KINDER: He did.

VAN SUSTEREN: And he laid out where Virginia...

KINDER: In a very fine...

VAN SUSTEREN: ... has standing...

KINDER: In a very fine 32-page opinion that's being pored over by legal scholars. Look, the federal government, the Department of Justice is being shot down one by one. They're being shot down. We can prevail in this. We can reform, replace -- repeal and reform and replace this misbegotten federal law that was passed in such a corrupt manner and that Americans do not want! And we've sent that message every way we can!

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Thank you, sir. We'll be watching what happens in Missouri, and also with your lawsuit. Thank you.

KINDER: Thank you so much.

VAN SUSTEREN: And of course, the voters of Missouri -- they're not alone. According to a Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll, just 15 percent of the nation want the new health care law implemented, 42 percent want that law changed, 36 percent want it repealed.

As Republicans look over those numbers, are they licking their chops? Former senator Rick Santorum joins us live. And you've got the widest smile on your face, look like the cat that swallowed the canary!

RICK SANTORUM, FORMER PENNSYLVANIA SENATOR: Look, the American public has looked at this. They've analyzed it. And more importantly, they're beginning to see the consequences of it. You go into any town hall meeting -- I know members of Congress on the Republican side are doing this, and they're saying, Raise your hand if your premiums have gone down since "Obama care" passed. Every one of them gone up. In the places that have -- like Massachusetts that have implemented a version of "Obama care," they've gone up more than any other place. Nothing good -- nothing good is coming of this legislation right now. And they're -- and Democrats are hurting.

VAN SUSTEREN: You know what's sort of interesting is that when the tea party movement got started, the Democratic Party was quite dismissive and even insulting towards people, citizens who were complaining about wanting redress by the government. And then the Democrats said that they missed the boat with Senator Scott Brown in Massachusetts. And now you've got this -- and I was struck today by how Robert Gibbs, the president's press secretary, was quoted when he was asked about it, when he was asked what it means, he said, Nothing. And I thought, You know what, pal? You don't get it!


VAN SUSTEREN: I don't know if you get it, but you know, I thought to myself, Look, you know, you still can turn it around. You can still go out and win, but if you're arrogant and say, Nothing...

SANTORUM: That's the word.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... I thought, you know, You're out of touch, pal!

SANTORUM: It's -- it's -- it is an arrogance. It's this ruling class here in Washington that we know best, we'll tell what -- we'll tell you what to think. You're -- it'll be good for you once you figure out how nice we are and how much it means.

Here's the difference between what I think their game plan -- they've -- they've looked at other states -- other -- other countries around the world and they said, you know, this has worked in other countries. People like this. People like government-run health care. It's very popular in Canada. It's very popular in the U.K.

Here's the difference. In these countries, they didn't have a system of comprehensive health care relative (INAUDIBLE) 85, 86 percent of the people insured before they had government health care. In this case, Barack Obama's replacing what people have, and by pretty large numbers like. And so when they're seeing, I'm going to lose my health care, I'm going to have to change my policy, I'm going to have this and this and this...


SANTORUM: ... that's what's got people upset.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, there's another problem, too...

SANTORUM: It's -- it's -- it's upsetting the apple cart.

VAN SUSTEREN: Even if it turned out to be, you know, the most brilliant thing that could happen and something that all American people will love and it's a really good thing, is it won't -- it doesn't go into effect, essentially, until 2014...


VAN SUSTEREN: ... which is after the election. So all these great...


VAN SUSTEREN: So all these things that are going to impress the voters aren't going to happen until after the -- after the presidential election.

SANTORUM: That's right. And their taxes (INAUDIBLE) regulations. I mean, you're going to have increases in, you know, all sorts of -- all sorts of fees that are going on. You're going to see cuts in programs. I mean, these are things that are going to begin to happen right now and that the American public is going to say, What's this doing for me right now? Because Barack Obama, as he does with everything -- he did in the stimulus package -- he oversells. You know, What this is going to do -- this is going to -- you know, we're not going to have 8 percent unemployment...

VAN SUSTEREN: Christina Romer said we'd have 8 percent unemployment.

SANTORUM: Right. He oversells to get this thing passed and he underperforms. And that pattern is beginning to hurt him.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, here's some numbers (INAUDIBLE) going to be off by (INAUDIBLE) You know, I've gotten them out of newspapers, but the total votes for Proposition 3 (SIC) were about 939,000 votes. And it won by 71 percent of the vote, which brings it down to -- so we've got 666,000 people and some change...


VAN SUSTEREN: ... wanted -- wanted Proposition C. Republican primary had 577,000 voters. If you assume that all Republicans voted for it, that means that there's a differential of about almost 90,000 people that are either Democrats or independents...

SANTORUM: Independents.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... who said either -- who said either to their own party, We don't want this, or the independents that the -- that had made it such a close race in '08.

SANTORUM: Yes. Look, Barack Obama, the Democrats here on Capitol Hill forced this down the throat of the American public. And they just said, You'll like it. Trust us. Well, they don't. They don't like it. They don't trust us. They don't see the plan's working on the economy. They don't see the plan working here in health care. They see their health care costs going up. And they're saying...

VAN SUSTEREN: But you -- you...

SANTORUM: ... don't do this.

VAN SUSTEREN: But you would expect the Republicans to go for it, but 90,000 people, either Democrats or independents, voted to -- for Proposition C in Missouri. That to me would -- would -- would be a signal to Robert Gibbs to say nothing is not what exactly he should be saying.


VAN SUSTEREN: Assuming he's quoted right.

SANTORUM: I assume (INAUDIBLE) I would just say that they are in the -- I think they're in the mode right now -- they're going to hunker down, they're going to -- they're going to try to do as well as they possibly can in this election and then they're going to hold on for dear life. They -- they -- they -- this president's just going to hold on for two years, trying to save this bill, and that will -- that will expand a huge amount of political capital over the next two years for this president.

VAN SUSTEREN: One quick question. I talked to Senator Grassley yesterday, and he said tourism is a great place -- Iowa is a great place to spend money. Have you noticed that?

SANTORUM: You know, Iowa is a wonderful state.

VAN SUSTEREN: Yes, I figure -- you can probably give some tips, right?


SANTORUM: I'm going to the Iowa state fair. You know, I...


SANTORUM: ... biggest state fair...

VAN SUSTEREN: You're going to be voting in Iowa soon! Anyway (INAUDIBLE) been to Iowa so much. Anyway, we'll leave that for another night.

SANTORUM: We will.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Thank you, Senator.

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