CNN "CNN Newsroom" - Transcript

Interview

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REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I know you are among this bipartisan group that wants -- you went to federal court. In fact, I have your -- your 36-page suit here. You are listed up here at the top. Not often you see a suit that says vs. Barack Obama and Robert Gates.

You filed a suit against these two men over the U.S. involvement in Libya. But, Congressman, first, we did hear just a short time ago from our White House correspondent Brianna Keilar that the administration's argument is this. They say, we, the U.S., do not have boots on the ground in Libya. U.S. troops are not in imminent danger. They do not need congressional approval for what they're doing now in Libya.

Sir, what say you?

KUCINICH: Well, they can tell it to the judge now, because this is now a matter before the federal court.

Our position is that they're in clear violation of Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution of the United States and they're in violation of the War Powers Act, and they can't claim that they got authority from NATO or authority from the U.N. to proceed in a war. They can't claim this isn't a war. You know, they can take this case to court, as we did, and now they're going to have to respond.

BALDWIN: So, if the White House is saying no boots on the ground, what are you -- do you know? Do you know of anything further with regard to our involvement in Libya?

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KUCINICH: OK.

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BALDWIN: Is the involvement --

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BALDWIN: -- further than the White House is letting on?

KUCINICH: I have to ask you. They spent $750 million on this war in Libya. And what's that?

We tell the people of the United States that that's not a war, that it's -- we have -- we can't mince words here. If it looks like a war, it's a war. And so this administration has a responsibility to abide by the Constitution.

In the end, this isn't about personalities, because the Constitution has a personality all of its own. In Article 1, Section 8, the founders put in the hands of Congress the war power. And nothing that this administration says can change that. So they're going to have to go to court now. This is -- this is not just a matter of political debate.

BALDWIN: I understand.

KUCINICH: This is a matter of legal principle -- of legal principle.

BALDWIN: No, I understand, Congressman Kucinich. And you're pointing specifically to the money.

But, if I may, I want to back up and just go back to my question about boots on the ground, again, the White House saying today, no boots on the ground, the U.S. playing a support role.

KUCINICH: This is about the Constitution.

BALDWIN: So, let me just ask you, though. Let me just ask you, do you have some information that perhaps the White House doesn't have with regard to U.S. forces in country?

KUCINICH: That's a silly question. This is --

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BALDWIN: Why is that a silly question, sir?

KUCINICH: This isn't about footwear. This is about the Constitution of the United States.

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BALDWIN: Sir, I took a look at your -- I took a look at this 36-page suit. And you specifically cite examples of different members within the U.S. saying there are boots on the ground.

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KUCINICH: I don't know where you're coming from, but we initiated a war against Libya. There's no question about that.

And that's indisputable. And to say, well, just because we don't have boots on the ground, it's not a war, huh? I mean, there's bombing that's occurred. We have had planes over there. We have got ships offshore that have been -- that launched attacks.

You cannot claim -- you can't claim this that isn't a war.

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BALDWIN: Sir, I'm not claiming that at all. I am just simply reporting what the White House did and getting your perspective.

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KUCINICH: Well, I hope so.

BALDWIN: But, since we are, Congressman Kucinich, let me ask you this. We were talking earlier about Pakistan. We know there were drone strikes, two today, number 36 and 34 for the year. Also, there are ongoing strikes against militants in Yemen, as you know.

To your mind, is the White House then also in violation in those countries?

KUCINICH: Listen, I called for a vote last year on the issue of Pakistan. And you could expect there will be some further questions raised about Yemen.

You can't just say because they're robot planes that might be operated from someplace in the states that it doesn't mean there's a war. The fact that there's a separation from the technology and the person doesn't mean that, if you took the person out, the robot plane would suddenly work. It doesn't. You need a person and the plane.

BALDWIN: Are we in violation there? Are we in violation of the War Powers Resolution there?

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KUCINICH: That's a question that we ought to talk to members of Congress about.

And I'm -- certainly, I'm focusing now on Libya. The issues are very powerful. That's the issue that's in court. And that's the issue we're proceeding.

And, frankly, again, to the White House, tell it to the judge at this point, because that's where we're at. We're in court.

BALDWIN: Well, what is it that you are asking the court to do?

KUCINICH: To declare that the war in Libya is illegal and to order the White House to stop, period. It's in violation of the Constitution -- and to get an order that says that Article 1, Section 8 clearly has put in the hands of the Congress the determination as to whether or not to take this country into war. It was never intended to be an executive who could make that decision unilaterally.

BALDWIN: Congressman Dennis Kucinich, sir, I appreciate it very much.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

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