MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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Mr. McCaul, Congressman, I do want to ask you: what does the death of bin Laden mean to the front, to the war in Afghanistan, to you?

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL ®, TEXAS: I think the killing of bin Laden marks a significant beginning to the end of this war. Yes, you couldn"t win this war with bin Laden still alive. So, by taking him out, by killing him, we can talk about how we end this operation, end this war. Not to say that the terror threat is still alive and well. It"s certainly is, and we have to be very mindful and vigilant about.

But with respect to Afghanistan, I think there"s a timetable already in place that General Petraeus has set forward to begin withdrawal in July and to begin a transition of power to the Afghan people who ultimately will have to win this.

MATTHEWS: Congresswoman Sanchez, do you think we should get out of Afghanistan now?

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Absolutely. I"ve been one of those advocates saying what the heck are we doing there now? Certainly, getting Osama bin Laden was key to our being able to pull out, as my colleague has said.

And I think the way in which we got him, this very strategic, very surgical way, points to the future wars for the United States. I mean, this is the type of thing we need to be investing in. And it really speaks to why do we have 100,000 or 120,000 conventional troops now in Afghanistan?

It really is time to think about how we get out of there and how we allow the Afghan people to decide their future.

MATTHEWS: Mr. McCaul, we"re fighting the Taliban over there, right? Do we think we can exterminate or eliminate the Taliban as a political force in that country?

MCCAUL: I don"t think so, 100 percent. They did provide safe haven to al Qaeda. They still do. I think one of the goals is: how do we create security and stability so that the Afghan people can take over their nation.

I agree with my colleague here --

MATTHEWS: No, but you"re not answering my question. My question is if we"re fighting the Taliban, can we defeat them?

They live there. We"re coming home eventually. They"re going to stay there. When they stay there, they"ll still be there. So, how do we defeat them?

MCCAUL: By allowing the Afghan people to rise up and defeat them on their own. I don"t think, at the end of the day, we can stay there forever. And we can"t put hundreds of thousands of troops there forever. And eventually, it"s the Afghan people who will have to win this war.

I agree with my colleague, that good intelligence and Special Forces, Special Operations, as we start to withdraw and transition out, is the way we deal with these specific threats that we find in Afghanistan and in Pakistan. And I think this successful mission really demonstrates that.

SANCHEZ: Chris, remember, we went into Afghanistan because we were going after Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, which there are very few operatives now there. They"ve gone to Yemen and other places. So, the reality is, we need to get out of there.

And Taliban, we"ve even been brokering deals with the Taliban to allow them to stay put in Afghanistan.

So, the reality is we have the ability in which to pull out our conventional troops over this next year and a half, and basically use overt means in order to tell the Afghan people--hey, if we see that people are going to be training here in missions against the United States or some of our allies, then we are going to take what it--we are going to do what it takes to eliminate those types of camps. We"re not going to let happen what happened before 9/11, which was that that was used as a ground to hurt the American people.

MATTHEWS: OK. Thank you both for joining us. Mr. McCaul, thank you, Congressman.

MCCAUL: Thanks, Chris.

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