The O'Reilly Factor (20:10)

THE O'REILLY FACTOR (20:10)

May 14, 2004 Friday

HEADLINE: Unresolved Problem
Vatican Speaks on Prison Abuse Scandal

GUESTS: Vito Fossella

BYLINE: Tony Snow

BODY:
SNOW: In the unresolved problem segment tonight, a top Vatican official spoke to an Italian newspaper earlier this week about the Iraq prison abuse scandal. Vatican foreign minister Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo said, "The torture? A more serious blow to the United States than Sept. 11. Except that the blow was not inflicted by terrorists but by Americans against themselves."

Well, as you might expect, that comment has angered some American lawmakers. Joining us now from Washington, New York Congressman Vito Fossella, a Republican and a Roman Catholic.

Representative Fossella, first your quick reaction to the Vatican's comment?

REP. VITO FOSSELLA ®, NEW YORK: I think it's outrageous. If you can fire an archbishop, he should be fired. I think it's out of touch, frankly, with the rank and file Catholics in this country. But aside from that, it really smacks of anti-American propaganda.

You know, I am privileged to represent Staten Island and part of Brooklyn. And tragically, that area lost almost 300 people on September 11. And for this gentleman to compare what obviously we all acknowledge to be sort of a black spot on our military, but not reflective of the vast, vast majority of brave men and women serving our military, and compare that and even say that probably supercedes what happened on September 11 is just really outrageous. I think it is unwarranted.

And you know, it's ironic in the way they paint the broad brush, if anybody can appreciate taking a few bad apples, if you will, and indicting an entire organization, right now it's the church.

SNOW: You're alluding, of course, to the sex abuse scandals within the Catholic church itself.

FOSSELLA: I am. And I think...

SNOW: Like this is not the first time the archbishop has spoken out against Americans. Do you think it's time for the State Department or somebody to say, look guys, you've got to get this straight, because it does appear that you've got a fellow who is carving out a foreign policy, that as far as one can tell is not based in scripture or anything. It's just based on his animus toward the United States.

FOSSELLA: You know, -- I would think-you're right. And I would think on balance, to maintain, if at a minimum, the diplomatic conversation should be taking place over this.

But it's ironic in that this present pope is one who fought for years to liberate not just Poland, his native Poland, but other countries from the heels of communism and oppression. And in large part, that was done because of the steadfast commitment of the United States and our commitment to freedom. And our willingness-and those men and women in the armed services as well, to sacrifice their life.

Now we're doing, I believe, the same thing for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan by allowing them to really sacrifice for people they don't even know. And if anything, you would think that the Vatican and the church would recognize that those individuals in Iraq have suffered from tyrants and torture and rape all these years, and would be standing beside us, and not using this as an excuse to smack the American people and what happened on September 11 simultaneously.

SNOW: Well, not to belabor the point, but for a church where confession is a sacrament, it does appear that here in the United States, you have a lot of people taking a good hard look at Abu Ghraib. We have public opinion inflamed about it. The newspapers are full of stories. It's not as if the United States has decided to look the other way on this one.

FOSSELLA: No, exactly. And I think what has happened is a terrible thing has come to light. Again, we compare that in perspective to, I think, all the good things that are happening in Iraq with our men and women in the military with honor and dignity. And action is being taken as we speak.

Court-martial proceedings are underway. There may be individuals that are going to spend a lot of time in jail. That's what this country is all about, justice. And that's what we're trying to do in Iraq.

And again, as it relates to the church, again, I would hate for them to start painting with such a broad brush. I don't think most people, including-especially most Catholics, feel that the Catholic church should be totally indicted for the abuses of some among their ranks. And I don't think the archbishop should do the same.

SNOW: Congressman Fossella, one of the things that I think is going on here is that the archbishop is just extending his already stated opposition to the war, even though Americans argued that the just war theory made it possible to go head, take out a dictator, try to liberate a country, try to open up the prisons, all that sort of thing. Doesn't it strike you that what he's really trying to do is justify his original position, rather than amend it in light of things that may have come to pass or come to public knowledge since the invasion?

FOSSELLA: Right. And that's not surprising. I think an individual like that uses every opportunity to justify original position. And when it speaks of his lack of credibility and objectivity when it comes to this.

The fact that's such a high-ranking official in the Vatican disturbs, I'm sure not just me, but many people. And I think, you know, as I said at the outset, I know a lot of folks who lost their life on September 11. They would just go into work, young people, you know, fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers. Just innocent people going to work and enjoying another day of their life that was taken away from them.

And now to compare this situation in Iraq and the prison and put it on the same level is really disgraceful. And I think if anybody can get a hold of this position and-or the position he's taken within the Vatican and make some adjustments, because he should not be speaking-and I know he's out of touch with the rank and file. I believe strongly he's out of touch with the rank and file Catholics in this country and I'm sure across the world will appreciate what freedom is all about.

SNOW: All right, Congressman Vito Fossella, thanks for joining us.

FOSSELLA: Thank you.

SNOW: When we come back, last minute legal efforts to stop gay marriage in Massachusetts have failed. We will talk with the governor of that state.

And then furor over fast food. McDonald's outraged by a man who ate burgers, fries and everything else on the menu for a month, then made a movie about his Mcweight gain next.