MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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MATTHEWS: Corrupt.

Congresswoman Sanchez, this is a corrupt administration. I don"t know where the indictments are. If it"s correct, let"s see the indictments. Let"s move. If there"s something criminal, let"s hear about it.

Throwing words around like gangster, what is she up to? Is this what appeals to people who simply want to hear bad things said about President Obama? Is that what it is? Any bad word is good enough for them?

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, there certainly are a group of people--there is a group of people who do not like President Obama, no matter what.

And, so amongst themselves, they fight over the space and the time to say the worst things they can possibly say. Of course it"s not a gangster government. This is our government. All of the people run this government. Just as we saw in the election, that people made a different choice this past time, I think in the future they will make a--they will take this group out also.

So I think it"s about the people and the people have the choices. And it"s really sad to actually see one of my colleagues say those types of things. It"s just wrong.

MATTHEWS: Well, let me bring Jonathan on here.

Jonathan...

JONATHAN CAPEHART, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

MATTHEWS: ... you"re a very smart guy. And I think you know the Washington scene as well as I do--or at least you"re learning it.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: And I mean it, as a younger guy. And I have got to tell you something. There"s a group over in Virginia that teaches right-wing people how to talk like this. Use the most wild language, and always repeat over and over again and ignore the question.

David Gregory was doing a masterful job of trying to get her to answer a question.

CAPEHART: Right.

MATTHEWS: She wasn"t answering it. Here is the montage. He asked all kinds of questions and got the same--I have accused her of behaving like a zombie, in the sense that you always just stay on this sort of hypnotic trance. No matter what the question is, you come on television not to answer questions, not to engage in a dialogue, but to speak this sort of rehearsed thing.

Now, here is David Gregory repeatedly yesterday asking Congresswoman Bachmann about the possibility of a government shutdown, a good question, whether she herself would vote to shut down the government, a good question, over the fight over Planned Parent and the EPA, I think equally good policy questions, and whether Speaker Boehner has failed the Tea Party. People want more action taken on budget cutting.

The congresswoman was determined to drive home one point. She kept saying there was a secret $105 billion hidden, as she put, even though it"s appropriated, in the health care legislation of Barack Obama last year.

Let"s watch this behavior pattern. Is it mental or is this method?

Let"s watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "MEET THE PRESS WITH DAVID GREGORY")

BACHMANN: There was a Congressional Research Service report that just was issued in February, and we discovered that, secretly, unbeknownst to members of Congress, over $105 billion was hidden in the Obamacare legislation to fund the implementation of Obamacare.

We have taken one step forward and two steps back, because we"ve found now, that $105 billion--

GREGORY: All right. But that--but, Congresswoman--

BACHMANN: -- has already been implemented or appropriated.

GREGORY: ... you heard the President this week offer an accommodation...

BACHMANN: I think this deception that the president and Pelosi and Reid put forward, with spend--with appropriating over $105 billion, needs to be given back to the people -- $105 billion is a lot of money.

I think that President Obama needs to give back that $105 billion that they already appropriated.

This $105 billion has to be given back before we can start any other discussion.

DAVID GREGORY, MODERATOR, "MEET THE PRESS": Let me--

BACHMANN: The main message going across the Internet today among members of the Tea Party, they are outraged about this $105 billion that was deceptively put in the Obamacare--

GREGORY: Congresswoman--

BACHMANN: We have to demand that we claw back the $105 billion that was deceptively already appropriated by President Obama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST: Is there some kind of playing card, Congresswoman, queen of diamonds, like in "Manchurian Candidate," where you flash the queen of diamonds and this congresswoman, colleague of yours, goes into that trance-like repetition of those words as if the words are scripted. In fact, she doesn"t even got a card. Is this--is this conditioned response?

Look, I"m asking--is this mental or method? Is she methodically behaving like this or is this the way her brain is working?

I"m trying to figure out what"s going on. People don"t behave like this, Congresswoman. I know you well enough to know that you know what"s going on around you. Is what"s going on around you hypnotic behavior, trance-like behavior or is somebody actually saying the way to go on "Meet the Press," the number one show on television to in terms of being able to make a point is not to go and answer David Gregory"s question but to go in like a trance and behave like this?

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think it"s method acting, absolutely. I believe she was told, she"s been taught and this is what she does. That"s why she doesn"t have the type of appeal that you need to really push through something like that.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: It has nothing to do with the policy. We all know, for example, that when we passed that health care reform, everybody--everybody--I mean everybody in the United States and anywhere else who wanted to get on the Internet could read what was in there for at least three days ahead of time.

MATTHEWS: OK.

SANCHEZ: So, she can"t all of a sudden complain --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: A hundred and five billion dollars in there.

MATTHEWS: Everything is a secret. Everything is a repetition.

What"s going on? What is this new kind of conservative training here?

JONATHAN CAPEHART, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I don"t know about this conservative training, but what we"re seeing from Congresswoman Bachmann is--and I"m glad you play that montage, the $105 billion--it sort of answers the question about, you know, when she was asked later about, you know, gangster government, calling the administration corrupt. That"s her--that"s her answer. The administration put in this hidden $105 billion without Congress" approval, even though Congress appropriated it.

She was relentlessly on message, which is, you know, a typical Washington thing. She always comes with a prop, whether it"s that placard with $105,464,000,000 on it, or remember when she did her rebuttal at the State of the Union address standing in front of the video monitor and then turning around and showing a chart of jobless numbers and deficit numbers.

She"s someone for whom Tea Party members look to because she"s a member of Congress, because she has to cast--

MATTHEWS: Right.

CAPEHART: -- actually cast votes, they look to her for answers and she"s someone--you know, you play clips of Sarah Palin if from time to time when she"s answering questions and she meanders all over the place. Not Congresswoman Bachmann.

MATTHEWS: Right.

CAPEHART: She is direct. She has an economy of words. And her words are overflowing with information. It"s just that the information sometimes is completely wrong.

MATTHEWS: Well, the queen of diamonds was flashed on Sunday around 10:30 in the morning Washington time because she repeated every word she"d rehearsed. Thank you--or memorized or whatever.

Thank you very much, Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez, my pal.

SANCHEZ: Thank you.

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