MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript

Interview

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REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: Well, I"ve been in Washington ever since the tragic events in Arizona. And all of us are praying for the recovery of all of the victims, including Congresswoman Giffords.

But I will say, Ed, that--and you know I love you and I think that you"re one of the most passionate defenders of the people that"s in the media. But, you know, John Boehner has actually, I thought, said set a very good tone.

I mean, he really rose to the occasion in a way that I suppose surprised some people. But I"ve known John a long time, and I think that he"s really been very statesmanlike in the way that he"s responded to the tragedy in Arizona.

Now, we"ve got a debate coming up on health care. I don"t know that John"s going to be able to control everything that his members will say. But I think he is trying to understand that the atmosphere"s changed dramatically, and the president"s set a tone that I think all of us need to pay attention to.

SCHULTZ: Do you know if he has publicly called on his members of Congress in his caucus to tone it down? Because I missed that story, Congressman.

KUCINICH: Well, you know what? John Boehner is not a person who is a flame-thrower himself. And it"s important to remember that, Ed, because he"s not someone who"s going to approve of anyone who is--he"s going to push the Republican agenda. I got that. I don"t agree with him. But he"s not going to approve of anything that would increase the intensity of rhetoric that really is something that the country needed to reflect on and something that our president has cautioned about.

SCHULTZ: Well, well me ask you, is it a good tone to tell "60 Minutes" that you don"t believe in compromise?

KUCINICH: You know what/ He"s the Speaker, he"s elected by the Republicans. I think he"s going to run a Republican agenda. He"s dedicated himself to that.

What we have to do as Democrats, what we must do is to stand up for the right of people to have health care, is to challenge the corporations who are trying to use our political system to stop the reforms from happening, to stop our American people from being able to access health care, and we need do that. It"s about--the question is, what are Democrats ready to do?

SCHULTZ: No doubt. But what tone does it set to the American people when you actually take someone"s health care away, when you tell someone with a pre-existing condition that, you know what, you don"t qualify? That is flat-out discrimination. We"ve already--

KUCINICH: Well, you"re absolutely right.

SCHULTZ: -- been down this road. So it may not--

KUCINICH: Ed, I am with you.

SCHULTZ: -- sound like the right-wing talkers of America, but the fact of the matter is, the action, that is a tone of defiance against what is going to help millions of Americans. Correct?

KUCINICH: Well, I"m with you on health care. It"s my bill that I wrote with John Conyers, Ed, that would bring a not-for-profit system, single payer, Medicare for all.

We"re going to have a vigorous debate. I think that in light of the tragedy in Arizona, you know, with our colleague struggling for life, we need to be mindful of the rhetoric and hopefully--

SCHULTZ: True.

KUCINICH: -- Mr. Luntz being at that conference is going to be able to communicate to the rank and file Republicans that things have changed here. We cannot just say, well, we"ll wait a couple weeks and then go back to business as usual. We have to watch the words. We have to remember the wise words of a great Republican president, Lincoln, "With malice towards none, with charity for all."

SCHULTZ: Well, that is not the tone that John Boehner has had since the last two years working as the Minority Leader. That would be a 180, if he were to have that attitude as Speaker of the House, and that is the point.

He"s no longer a congressman anymore. He is the Speaker of the House.

Do you--do you think--

KUCINICH: He might surprise us in that.

SCHULTZ: Well, I hope that he does, but I haven"t seen it yet.

KUCINICH: He"s not going to surprise us what he stands for, but he might surprise us in the tone that he sets.

SCHULTZ: OK. Does that mean that we can expect the Speaker of the House to tell the Tea Partiers to tone it down with some of the rhetoric that they"ve said this week? Do you think the Speaker has that responsibility? Because we all know they"re Republicans.

KUCINICH: You know what? John Boehner is someone who I think even as he"s taken this office, is maturing into it. He and I will debate these issues like health care, all the way down the line.

SCHULTZ: But do you want him to talk to the Tea Party?

KUCINICH: Of course. I mean, we all need to do that. I need do that. We all need to. We have to have a dialogue.

SCHULTZ: So, Congressman, you think the Speaker should speak directly to the Tea Party about toning down their rhetoric, where they have already stated in Arizona that they"re not going do that?

KUCINICH: He has many members who have been directly elected by Tea Party activists, and I think that the message is going to get out. And it needs to.

We can be passionate about what we believe in. I"m very passionate. But we"ve got to be careful about making it so personal, that we try to destroy people and not just keep our eyes focused on the issues.

SCHULTZ: It can"t get anymore personal than taking somebody"s health care. I don"t know how much more personal it can get, so--

KUCINICH: Ed, I"m with you that. I"ve been carrying that debate, and I carried it--I was the last guy standing among Democrats in holding out for a not-for-profit single payer.

SCHULTZ: Yes, very true.

KUCINICH: But we"ve got to watch the rhetoric.

SCHULTZ: But they"re going forward with the vote next week.

KUCINICH: Well, I know that.

SCHULTZ: And this is going to hurt a lot of Americans. It"s not going to pass in the Senate or the House, but it"s all about putting you on the defensive.

KUCINICH: And I"ll be on the floor of the House arguing against any attempt to repeal any aspect of it.

But we need to--we need to keep it focused on the debate, not get personal, and not create more tragedies such as what happened in Arizona. We"ve got to stop this super-heated rhetoric which is causing our politics to go off a cliff.

SCHULTZ: You think Congress can create tragedies?

KUCINICH: You know what? We have an environment which all of us must be mindful of the role that each one of us plays in either making this a better world, a more peaceful world, or the opposite of that.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, you know I have a lot of respect for you.

Dennis Kucinich with us here tonight on THE ED SHOW.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: Thanks so much.

KUCINICH: I love you, Ed.

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