MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" - Transcript

Interview

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REP. AARON SCHOCK ®, ILLINOIS: My understanding is this is going to be a straight up-or-down vote on the health care bill and then there"s going to be a series of replacement bills that are going to be offered and I"m sure there is going to be massaging back and forth and so forth.

MATTHEWS: When is the massaging going to begin? Because your speaker today said he"s going to allow open rules from now on and allow amendments to be offered, but on the first big bill to come out next Wednesday, no amendments.

And my question gets to particular points in your candidate promises, you guys, your Pledge to America, said you were going to allow people to be protected against being denied health care for pre-existing condition. Also, not to be stuck with lifetime payment limits. Those two amendments are not going to be in order, even though they"re in your campaign promises, your pledges of the campaign.

How can you justify that?

SCHOCK: Well, because I think the leadership has decided that this bill, with its 2,500 pages, is really so big and so bad that the best thing for us to do is to repeal the full bill and then go back and replace it with those common sense reforms that you"ve described and that, quite frankly a majority of Americans--

MATTHEWS: No, they are your proposal.

SCHOCK: -- Democrats and Republicans agree on.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

SCHOCK: If you--if you ask the Congress, will you vote for a bill that covers people with pre-existing conditions, to allow young people to be on their insurance, to allow people to buy across state lines, you"re going to get broad bipartisan support. And I, quite frankly, wish the president would have done that a year or two ago, and we wouldn"t be in this situation.

MATTHEWS: How do you force under the Constitution of private company to insure somebody--under the Constitution, you guys are always worried about the Constitution. What constitutional authority do you have, Congressman, to tell a private company, you"ve got to insure somebody, even though they"re in bad health and it"s a bad risk for them and they"re probably going to lose money on it? How do you do that? How do you force them do it?

When they say, no, we don"t think that he"s a good bet or she"s a good bet, we"re not going to insure them? And you say, oh, yes, we"re the government, we"re going to make you do it. Is that Republican philosophy, what you"re giving me?

SCHOCK: Well, Chris, you"re implying that"s not constitutional.

And that"s obviously one--

MATTHEWS: Well, I"m asking you, do you think it is?

SCHOCK: -- one of the many provisions of the bill. I think that it really depends on what the replacement bill looks like. You know--

MATTHEWS: You"re hedging.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHOCK: -- by countries like Switzerland, for example, where--

MATTHEWS: But you"re hedging there. I"m asking you, do you?

Congressman, it"s in your promise list.

SCHOCK: Chris--

MATTHEWS: Do you believe--you said you"re going to put it in order down the road. You"re going to massage the bill and bring in these proposals. Do you believe it"s constitutional to force a private industry, a business, to insure they think somebody they think is a bad risk?

SCHOCK: Well, well me say this, I"m not an attorney and I"m not a constitutional law expert. So, I"m not going to--I"m not going to put myself in that trick box to play judge. I will say--concede you that it is a goal and it wasn"t our pledge to make sure that our--

MATTHEWS: It sure was.

SCHOCK: -- health care replacement bill covers people with pre-existing conditions, and I think that that"s a promise that we can fulfill.

MATTHEWS: The reason I bring this up, sir, I"m not playing games. I read Terry Jeffrey (ph), a real Buchananite, this afternoon, who said it"s not constitutional and I know you"re raising all of these constitutional objections under, you know, original content and very narrow definitions of the Constitutional on the conservative side. And a lot of people on your side are saying these things are constitutional, and I"m just wondering if you"re one of them--that"s all.

SCHOCK: Yes.

MATTHEWS: I don"t think that it.

SCHOCK: Well, the House rules are going to require that any bill that"s brought forward in the future, including our replacement, is going to have to cite, you know, where in the Constitution the authority"s given to be able do X, Y, or Z.

MATTHEWS: Well, Congressman, thank you. Keep working at it. Aaron Schock--

SCHOCK: You know, Chris--

MATTHEWS: Yes?

SCHOCK: Thanks for having me back on. Two years ago as a new member, I came on your show for the first day and now, it"s my second term and I"m back on. I appreciate you having me here.

MATTHEWS: You"re always welcome. Please come back, Mr. Schock.

SCHOCK: OK.

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